January 24, 2008 at 7:41 pm
Ralph,
I'd feel sorry for you but I believe that's not what you want. I know what you mean when you see others getting the goods and you just get overlooked. I can understand not being happy because you haven't gotten your annual review/raise. I also have empathy with your desire to have your work valued. I've never heard of a depreciation schedule for employee's :). But you are correct on PC's. We use a 3 year replacement cycle.
From what you've said your current situation doesn't appear to be healthy. I'd consider seeking another opportunity but, be of good cheer because not all places "work" the same way.
Case in point, my position is considered management and when we have a good year we get a larger share of the bonus pool than staff. But not this year, as there is no bonus pool. Even though there will be no bonuses for "management" most of the managers went to the CEO/COO and let them know that we MUST have bonuses for staff. Maybe it's because there are a number of former or retired military in management and we all know that "the troops have to eat first". Or maybe it's because we do value our staff.
What ever you decide to do for your future I'd keep your experiences in mind. If they ask you in an interview process if you have questions for them ask about these issues. You may not get an offer if they don't like the question but, they may respect your interest in finding the "right" fit.
Paul
--Paul Hunter
January 24, 2008 at 9:20 pm
Sorry about the previous rant . . . yesterday was a really bad day. :-/
I have updated my resume and am considering returning to Road Warrior status. I also am trying to make the best of the situation . . . whenever I can find something good. 😉 As for loving the job but not necessarily those you work with, it should be noted that there is no recorded existence of someone's last words being, "Damn! I sure wish I had worked more!" While there are a lot of nice people with whom I work, that does not make them competent nor does it mean that I don't get to do their work. Yes, I know, life is not fair and neither is employment.
My basic point was that there are, indeed, places that are not good places to work and that there is management that has an extremely archaic view of their employees. I also know that there are extremely good places to work . . . I've worked at two of them (of course, both are no longer in existence but whose counting ;-). Based on over 35 years of experience in the profession and having been laid off many times, I long ago realized the wisdom of the advice I got early in my career from one of the then heavey weights in the profession, "Be at least as loyal to your employer as your employer is to you . . . but not much more." That may be why I rather enjoy the Road Warrior life. As I have told many who asked what the upside and downside risks are, "No matter how bad it is, you aren't there forever . . . but, no matter how good it is, you're not there forever . . . of course, I have never had to face the latter problem."
Oh, and, no, not even a raise to keep up with inflation. My last raise was 3% in September of 2006, although it was retroactively to July of 2006. I have also determined that those who tend to question management's decisions (not necessarily refuse to follow them but, rather, just raise legitimate questions about concerns) tend to have 4 month late reviews and worse reviews while those who raise no questions and don't care whehter things are done right (or even done) tend to get on-time reviews. Interesting.
So, back to the over all subject, pay raises are not a given, from my experience, unless you change jobs.
January 24, 2008 at 9:33 pm
Ralph,
Hope it gets better and smile, tomorrow's Friday
January 25, 2008 at 12:15 am
Seams like most fokes understands the market we are on 🙂
sing4you, well the most important is that your happy with your situation and it does not sound to bad then 🙂 In my country too the most effective way to get up the salary is to shift job unless you want to stay you can show your boss a nother company that is willing to pay, thou it's of course a risk.
January 25, 2008 at 3:28 pm
Ralph, I understand your frustration. However job satisfaction does not come from money. I had this experience twice.
One time this company offered me a job and the pay was good. But for two years the DBA and the manager yelled at me liked I was nothing. I felt liked I was mentally abused. I finally had to quit because I was about to have a nervous break down. I lost all my confidence and I thought I was a lousy programmer. Until I found a new job and everyone was very pleased with my work, then I regained my confidence. Then last year one of my friend went to work for their accounting department, she got yelled at everyday and so she quited after six months. She said she had a choice to choose the job and she picked this company because it gave her more money. She was miserable and felt she was a fool to accept the job until I told her what had happened to me. It also happened to many people working there. She felt much better and eventually found a job with less pay but was much happier.
My last job I got an exceptional review from my manager, he gave me a 5% raise and a big bonus. However when the organization changed, my manager became the director and I had a new manager. My new manager told me that he would micro-managed me because he did not know my work. Did he read my review? Did he not trust my former manager (his current boss) that I was able to do my job? Anyway he told me to write a procedure and he gave me a template. What was he thinking? I considered it was an insult. The worst of all the template was not working so I wrote the procedure and explained to him that his template did not work. He did not believe me and said I did not follow his direction on purpose. He started picking on me and did not like anything I did. I worked ten to fourteen hours a day and my new manager was not happy. I was miserable and when I complained to my old boss, he said I should follow my new manager's direction (even it was wrong!!). The worst of all my old manager said the conflict between me and the new manager ruined the team's morale. He forced me to resign. I felt betrayed but I signed the letter.
I rather get less money and work in some place that I am happy.
January 25, 2008 at 9:11 pm
Ten Centuries,
And thus, the crux of the issue . . . as my first management instructor would have put it, "Money is not a Satisfier but, rather, a Dissatisfier." More money cannot make an employee happy but insufficient money can make an employee dissatisfied. Similarly, the way a person is managed can make the situation good or bad. However, in the end it is not one thin but the entire collection of what is involved that determine whether an employee is satisfied or dissatisfied with whatever job they have.
I have noticed that many younger developers see the dollars and actually believe the statements that are made during the hiring process about "we believe that our emplyees are our most important asset" or "we encourage our employees to keep their skills up to date". they realize that their raises may not be keeping up with inflation and that they never seem to be able to get time for any training (much less funding) except totally on their own . . . and they move on. Because of the turn over, the management of companies feels justified in not providing any funding or time for training and, oddly enough, the turn over doesn't stop.
I can't complain about the younger developers, though. When I first started, I didn't even look so much at the wages . . . I was looking at the challenges offered in the job and what all I would be learning (I didn't think I knew it all ;-). I have also moved on for more money and better opportunities (mostly due to being recruited, though) and I reckon that I will now continue to do so.
Am I cynical or realistic about companies and their hiring/compensation practices?
January 25, 2008 at 10:19 pm
And so we reach the Goldilocks story of our time. If the pay seems to far above the market rate -- it must be for a good reason. The stress may be too much or the work environment bad. If it's to low then they probably hire a the bottom of the talent pool and you wont be "engaged" by the work and won't stay long. It seems everybody is trying for the one that's just right.
I keep telling my daughter that she has to kiss a lot of frogs before she finds a prince. I guess the same thing applies to the job search.
--Paul Hunter
Viewing 7 posts - 31 through 36 (of 36 total)
You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Login to reply