SQL Clone
SQLServerCentral is supported by Redgate
 
Log in  ::  Register  ::  Not logged in
 
 
 


Flash


Flash

Author
Message
Steve Jones
Steve Jones
SSC Guru
SSC Guru (142K reputation)SSC Guru (142K reputation)SSC Guru (142K reputation)SSC Guru (142K reputation)SSC Guru (142K reputation)SSC Guru (142K reputation)SSC Guru (142K reputation)SSC Guru (142K reputation)

Group: Administrators
Points: 142778 Visits: 19424
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Flash

Follow me on Twitter: @way0utwest
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
My Blog: www.voiceofthedba.com
Woody
Woody
SSC Veteran
SSC Veteran (212 reputation)SSC Veteran (212 reputation)SSC Veteran (212 reputation)SSC Veteran (212 reputation)SSC Veteran (212 reputation)SSC Veteran (212 reputation)SSC Veteran (212 reputation)SSC Veteran (212 reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 212 Visits: 246
There have been reports of significant performance degradation over time with SSD drives, especially when there is heavy write activity. The theory is that this is due to internal fragmentation of the files on the drive by the wear leveling algorithms in the drive firmware. This may be worth testing for yourself before making a full commitment to SSD in your enterprise. This article details the authors findings using a laptop SSD drive http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=669&type=expert&pid=1



w.durkin@online.de
w.durkin@online.de
Ten Centuries
Ten Centuries (1.1K reputation)Ten Centuries (1.1K reputation)Ten Centuries (1.1K reputation)Ten Centuries (1.1K reputation)Ten Centuries (1.1K reputation)Ten Centuries (1.1K reputation)Ten Centuries (1.1K reputation)Ten Centuries (1.1K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 1063 Visits: 1879
Hi,

I think that the degradation issue is one that mainly affects mainstream SSDs and not the enterprise versions.

From what I've read, file fragmentation will not slow down an SSD at all, as the latency for finding the fragmentation just isn't there. The latency for writes has to do with how SSDs perform writes. The cell it is writing to has to be emptied before it can be written to, so has two write operations per "real" write command.

I don't agree with Steve's opinion that it will take quite a few years before SSD catches up with HDD (both capacity and deployment). SSDs are already available at 512GB and all the SSD companies are putting in the hours to get and keep pole position on both performance and capacity.

I reckon that we'll see the first 1TB drives sometime next year (if not this year) and that by 2011 you'll see SSD taking huge chunks out of the HDD market. The savings in energy and I/O per $ are just too attractive.

I still want a FusionIo though, those things make SSDs look like normal HDDs!

Regards,

WilliamD
majorbloodnock
majorbloodnock
SSCrazy
SSCrazy (2.4K reputation)SSCrazy (2.4K reputation)SSCrazy (2.4K reputation)SSCrazy (2.4K reputation)SSCrazy (2.4K reputation)SSCrazy (2.4K reputation)SSCrazy (2.4K reputation)SSCrazy (2.4K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 2449 Visits: 3064
So long as it's not just another Flash in the pan ;-)

Sorry, but someone had to state the obvious..... I'll get my coat.

Semper in excretia, sumus solum profundum variat
mike brockington
mike brockington
SSC Veteran
SSC Veteran (252 reputation)SSC Veteran (252 reputation)SSC Veteran (252 reputation)SSC Veteran (252 reputation)SSC Veteran (252 reputation)SSC Veteran (252 reputation)SSC Veteran (252 reputation)SSC Veteran (252 reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 252 Visits: 245
The very fact that these things come with 'wear leveling algorithms' is surely a very large hint that Flash memory at any price suffers from degradation over time. Every report I have ever seen says that this is limited to WRITE operations, while READs remain basically infinite, therefore Flash should never be used for tempdb, only for databases that are effectively read-only.

Throw away your pocket calculators; visit www.calcResult.com


Emil Fridriksson
Emil Fridriksson
Old Hand
Old Hand (373 reputation)Old Hand (373 reputation)Old Hand (373 reputation)Old Hand (373 reputation)Old Hand (373 reputation)Old Hand (373 reputation)Old Hand (373 reputation)Old Hand (373 reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 373 Visits: 88
Actually, 1 TB size flash drives are not quite a few years away. Texas memory systems currently sell a product called RamSan 500, that is up to 2 TB of flash based SSD with 64 GB of RAM based cache. My company runs its database of this drive as well as two of the faster, all RAM based, 128 GB RamSan 400s and our experience of those is great.
Someguy
Someguy
SSC-Addicted
SSC-Addicted (491 reputation)SSC-Addicted (491 reputation)SSC-Addicted (491 reputation)SSC-Addicted (491 reputation)SSC-Addicted (491 reputation)SSC-Addicted (491 reputation)SSC-Addicted (491 reputation)SSC-Addicted (491 reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 491 Visits: 579
The article that Steve links to is very interesting (Thanks, Steve).

I think that flash hard drives offer a solution to a problem that's been dogging desktop and laptop computers for a long time - boot up speed. Some have suggested that the time spent in boot up could be greatly reduced if we could come up with a better way to make the operating system available. Early suggestions have include putting simple versions of the OS in ROM. Most users want to boot up and immediately do something like check email. Using this paradigm the user gets a quick boot up and checks email while the rest of the OS is loaded into memory in the traditional way.

ROM sounds good at first, but it's hampered by the need to occasionally update the OS. Can you imagine the losses that would be incurred if a major manufacturer released a machine with OS in ROM and someone discovered a security or virus vulnerability? You'd have to replace hardware all over the place. Answer: keep a simplified version of the OS separated off in flash. Updates can be sent out whenever needed. This takes advantage of the fast read times of flash while minimizing the downside - degradation by too much writing.

___________________________________________________
“Politicians are like diapers. They both need changing regularly and for the same reason.”
GSquared
GSquared
SSC Guru
SSC Guru (56K reputation)SSC Guru (56K reputation)SSC Guru (56K reputation)SSC Guru (56K reputation)SSC Guru (56K reputation)SSC Guru (56K reputation)SSC Guru (56K reputation)SSC Guru (56K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 56055 Visits: 9730
I don't think it's all that many years away. Prices are coming down like crazy, and capacity and speed and reliability are way up every year.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's less than five years, probably more in the 2011 area, where we start seeing SSDs as a real alternative for small and medium business servers. Might even be next year.

I've been watching flash/SSD technology since the 90s, and it's accelerating faster than HDD technology, and has been for a while. Not too much more catching up to do.

- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread

"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
Steve Jones
Steve Jones
SSC Guru
SSC Guru (142K reputation)SSC Guru (142K reputation)SSC Guru (142K reputation)SSC Guru (142K reputation)SSC Guru (142K reputation)SSC Guru (142K reputation)SSC Guru (142K reputation)SSC Guru (142K reputation)

Group: Administrators
Points: 142778 Visits: 19424
I might be wrong, in fact I'd expect I am. I know Texas Memory and Fusion are pushing hard, and growing their products.

I have no idea who to believe in terms of degradation. A couple of friends have these in enterprise servers, even in tempdb, and have had them for months, some close to a year, and no issues. no degradation they see and they say they've been looking.

There are some laptop reviews that have shown degradation, but is that the technology or that particular drive? Could be either one. Or both.

I'm not sold that this will adopt that quickly. The same was said about VMs, 64bit, and other technologies, and while adoption is growing, I'm not sure it's anywhere close to a large scale deployment.

Follow me on Twitter: @way0utwest
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
My Blog: www.voiceofthedba.com
GSquared
GSquared
SSC Guru
SSC Guru (56K reputation)SSC Guru (56K reputation)SSC Guru (56K reputation)SSC Guru (56K reputation)SSC Guru (56K reputation)SSC Guru (56K reputation)SSC Guru (56K reputation)SSC Guru (56K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 56055 Visits: 9730
I'm sure this technology will continue to evolve, and eventually we'll have 1TB sized flash memory drives that live in our servers, and possibly even laptops or phones. That's quite a few years away....


I think the option to have 1TB SDDs in servers will be real within just a few years, possibly as early as next year. By "real", I mean cost-effective for small/medium businesses, as opposed to specialized industries like EVE Online.

That won't mean immediate, wide-scale adoption, but I think it'll be faster and more wide-scale than might be expected, so long as prices and capacities continue on their current trends.

As far as reliability goes, backup to high-capacity, low-cost platters (standard HDDs) is probably a very viable option. Possibly, the pattern will be SDDs as primary and HDDs as backup, instead of HDDs as primary and tape for backup.

Actually, now that I think about it, that's a pretty close parallel.

- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread

"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
Go


Permissions

You can't post new topics.
You can't post topic replies.
You can't post new polls.
You can't post replies to polls.
You can't edit your own topics.
You can't delete your own topics.
You can't edit other topics.
You can't delete other topics.
You can't edit your own posts.
You can't edit other posts.
You can't delete your own posts.
You can't delete other posts.
You can't post events.
You can't edit your own events.
You can't edit other events.
You can't delete your own events.
You can't delete other events.
You can't send private messages.
You can't send emails.
You can read topics.
You can't vote in polls.
You can't upload attachments.
You can download attachments.
You can't post HTML code.
You can't edit HTML code.
You can't post IFCode.
You can't post JavaScript.
You can post emoticons.
You can't post or upload images.

Select a forum

































































































































































SQLServerCentral


Search