Click here to monitor SSC
SQLServerCentral is supported by Redgate
 
Log in  ::  Register  ::  Not logged in
 
 
 


Trust


Trust

Author
Message
Steve Jones
Steve Jones
SSC-Dedicated
SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)

Group: Administrators
Points: 36286 Visits: 18752
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Trust

Follow me on Twitter: @way0utwest
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
My Blog: www.voiceofthedba.com
Gary Varga
Gary Varga
SSCrazy Eights
SSCrazy Eights (8.4K reputation)SSCrazy Eights (8.4K reputation)SSCrazy Eights (8.4K reputation)SSCrazy Eights (8.4K reputation)SSCrazy Eights (8.4K reputation)SSCrazy Eights (8.4K reputation)SSCrazy Eights (8.4K reputation)SSCrazy Eights (8.4K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 8378 Visits: 6162
For too long we have rolled out the young/immature industry arguments. We must stop because quite simply: we know better.

A lot of these industries which have compliance, regulatory and professional frameworks started before we had an understanding that we needed these things. There were no examples for a long time then there was no understanding that the same frameworks were required for other industries. We have never been at that point in IT and for about half a century (in UK and USA at least) we should have been rolling out such things.

The UK has the British Computer Society but that only regulates its members and as membership is not a requirement it can be considered toothless from an industry perspective (although I am sure it does add value for its membership). There is also, to my understanding, other bodies in a similar situation e.g. IEE, ACM and IEEE.

Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
Jim P.
Jim P.
Say Hey Kid
Say Hey Kid (687 reputation)Say Hey Kid (687 reputation)Say Hey Kid (687 reputation)Say Hey Kid (687 reputation)Say Hey Kid (687 reputation)Say Hey Kid (687 reputation)Say Hey Kid (687 reputation)Say Hey Kid (687 reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 687 Visits: 2215
I look at it as less that there is an immaturity to IT, but that IT isn't normally the focus of the business. As a DBA or sys admin we can work for essentially any industry and it isn't the IT types that don't follow rules, in general. The IT types are told these are rules for the industry, get the servers and SW to comply with those rules.

I can do an installation of PeopleSoft Accounting or Great Plains and maintain it. But the accountants and clerks embezzling the money or cooking the books is not the IT guy. My last company, we had an accountant that was embezzling using wire transfers via an external company's software. He would pulling the paper that was signed that it had been done. So then it never hit the accounting software. They asked IT if we could prevent it happening again. There was no way without a big expense to get electronic reporting from the external company. Management said no. It was not our choice. Angry

That is what happened with Enron and several other scandals. It's not necessarily the IT, it's the management.



----------------
Jim P.

A little bit of this and a little byte of that can cause bloatware.
Steve Jones
Steve Jones
SSC-Dedicated
SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)

Group: Administrators
Points: 36286 Visits: 18752
Gary Varga (6/17/2013)
For too long we have rolled out the young/immature industry arguments. We must stop because quite simply: we know better.

A lot of these industries which have compliance, regulatory and professional frameworks started before we had an understanding that we needed these things. There were no examples for a long time then there was no understanding that the same frameworks were required for other industries. We have never been at that point in IT and for about half a century (in UK and USA at least) we should have been rolling out such things.

The UK has the British Computer Society but that only regulates its members and as membership is not a requirement it can be considered toothless from an industry perspective (although I am sure it does add value for its membership). There is also, to my understanding, other bodies in a similar situation e.g. IEE, ACM and IEEE.


But we are immature. Even thought we've been doing this for decades, we run as an unregulated, seat of the pants industry, with little standardization or adherence to practices.

Follow me on Twitter: @way0utwest
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
My Blog: www.voiceofthedba.com
John Hanrahan
John Hanrahan
Say Hey Kid
Say Hey Kid (674 reputation)Say Hey Kid (674 reputation)Say Hey Kid (674 reputation)Say Hey Kid (674 reputation)Say Hey Kid (674 reputation)Say Hey Kid (674 reputation)Say Hey Kid (674 reputation)Say Hey Kid (674 reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 674 Visits: 1449
In "our" industry we have code/process that do everything from keeping track of the number of labels purchased and used (not even close to life and death) to running a pacemaker. Why would you want to have high standards for the label purchasing program? Yet the pacemaker of course is as important as it gets. There is probably no value in regulating the label purchasing programmer yet the pacemaker one seems worthy. It's all about value.
Gary Varga
Gary Varga
SSCrazy Eights
SSCrazy Eights (8.4K reputation)SSCrazy Eights (8.4K reputation)SSCrazy Eights (8.4K reputation)SSCrazy Eights (8.4K reputation)SSCrazy Eights (8.4K reputation)SSCrazy Eights (8.4K reputation)SSCrazy Eights (8.4K reputation)SSCrazy Eights (8.4K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 8378 Visits: 6162
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (6/17/2013)

But we are immature. Even thought we've been doing this for decades, we run as an unregulated, seat of the pants industry, with little standardization or adherence to practices.



My point is that we act immaturely and blame it on industry youth; it is an excuse, no longer a reason. We have been using the same excuse for decades with no-one driving change. This would have to either be government driven or become a commercial defacto standard. I don't particularly want it but feel that the industry needs it.

Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
Steve Jones
Steve Jones
SSC-Dedicated
SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)

Group: Administrators
Points: 36286 Visits: 18752
We blame it on youth and immaturity, but that's a lot of it. There are driving reasons for this, and I agree with you they don't make sense, but I'm not sure how we change things.

We use lots of young people, who by definition, don't have experience. We let them run their own processes and standards, because for the most part, those things are effective. They work and produce results. The value from those results often outweighs the need for training and experience to be used, often even if the systems are redone three or four times. It's just not that often it's worth it.

Add to the fact that the "older" generations that have processes and standards are slow to adapt to news ways of doing things, and I'm not surprised that we just let things run wild. It makes dollar sense, especially in the short term.

Follow me on Twitter: @way0utwest
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
My Blog: www.voiceofthedba.com
Gary Varga
Gary Varga
SSCrazy Eights
SSCrazy Eights (8.4K reputation)SSCrazy Eights (8.4K reputation)SSCrazy Eights (8.4K reputation)SSCrazy Eights (8.4K reputation)SSCrazy Eights (8.4K reputation)SSCrazy Eights (8.4K reputation)SSCrazy Eights (8.4K reputation)SSCrazy Eights (8.4K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 8378 Visits: 6162
I find that not always to be the case. Some people could use some decent processes and a little control. I guess it depends on the scenario. More so on the value in the given scenario.

Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
Marcia J
Marcia J
SSC Eights!
SSC Eights! (889 reputation)SSC Eights! (889 reputation)SSC Eights! (889 reputation)SSC Eights! (889 reputation)SSC Eights! (889 reputation)SSC Eights! (889 reputation)SSC Eights! (889 reputation)SSC Eights! (889 reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 889 Visits: 1889
Just because other industries have evolved codes of conduct doesn't mean they alway abide by them.

I agree with the statement "sometimes I think it's just an illusion of more standards and practices" with an emphasis on the word sometimes.

Having said that doesn't negate the need for codes of conduct, standards, etc.
Elliott Whitlow
Elliott Whitlow
SSCertifiable
SSCertifiable (6.2K reputation)SSCertifiable (6.2K reputation)SSCertifiable (6.2K reputation)SSCertifiable (6.2K reputation)SSCertifiable (6.2K reputation)SSCertifiable (6.2K reputation)SSCertifiable (6.2K reputation)SSCertifiable (6.2K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 6222 Visits: 5314
I find that those professional rules/code of conduct are often not lived up to with little or no repercussions and therefore arguing that they provide something more than symbolic value is hard for me to swallow. Lets be real, in most cases you have to violate them pretty egregiously before any action is taken.

Even in our industry there are segments that have stiff rules of compliance such as for the medical device industry. Having to "reboot" a pacemaker isn't going to be acceptable in almost any case. Or having an infusion pump go crazy and dump a whole bag of morphine into a patient isn't acceptable. So the IT side of these industries are much more highly scrutinized than others.

Trust is hard to quantify, you assign a person you just met a certain value of trust and the value goes up or down depending on their actions. There are people I just met that I trust more than some I have known for decades because I KNOW I can't trust that other person through their actions.

DBAs are a particularly tricky aspect because we have access to virtually everything and usually right away. So I think we need to be especially careful about our actions.

CEWII


(fixed spelling error in edit)
Go


Permissions

You can't post new topics.
You can't post topic replies.
You can't post new polls.
You can't post replies to polls.
You can't edit your own topics.
You can't delete your own topics.
You can't edit other topics.
You can't delete other topics.
You can't edit your own posts.
You can't edit other posts.
You can't delete your own posts.
You can't delete other posts.
You can't post events.
You can't edit your own events.
You can't edit other events.
You can't delete your own events.
You can't delete other events.
You can't send private messages.
You can't send emails.
You can read topics.
You can't vote in polls.
You can't upload attachments.
You can download attachments.
You can't post HTML code.
You can't edit HTML code.
You can't post IFCode.
You can't post JavaScript.
You can post emoticons.
You can't post or upload images.

Select a forum

































































































































































SQLServerCentral


Search