August 5, 2008 at 7:08 am
My employer does not discriminate against women. Outside of the manager, the highest ranking employees in my department are women. We did have a woman manager and she just retired. We are paid by title and longevity, with a factor for reviews. I make the same amount as my male colleague who has the same longevity. I have noticed some discrimination in the industry, which I still can't fathom. I graduated top of my class, far outstripping any males in my class. I am maintaining male written code that frankly sucks. All the males that work here now are excellent and not better than the females. I think it might be based on the myth that men are better at math than women.
I'm a single mom. I don't take time off from work to take my kid to the doctor, dentist, etc. I pay someone to take her, unless she has a serious issue, in which case I take a sick or vacation day and I do not tell my employer I am taking time off because of her. I do go out to lunch with my team, and if we have after work activities, I join them for those as well. I have my mother watch my daughter, or I pay a professional to watch her. It may not be part of my job description, but it does help foster synergy and this does help ensure an excellent product.
If you want to succeed, you have to play the game. Whining gets you nowhere.
August 5, 2008 at 7:10 am
Someguy (8/5/2008)
I think I'd be happy to look at dropping down to part time, but I don't see a lot of those kinds of positions available. It seems like there would be large numbers of men and women that would be happy if we could figure on periods of life where we slow down and get back in, as opposed to drop out and get back in ...
This would be ideal. I also have not had a job where I can steadily work from home or have flex hours. If I ever change careers, this will definitely be large a reason why. I find that as the woman of the house, my job doesn't stop until I pass out in bed at night. It would be really nice to be able to do more when I have the time and energy and do less when I don't have the time and energy.
Or alternatively, maybe I need to find a wife - haha.
Mia
I have come to the conclusion that the top man has one principle responsibility: to provide an atmosphere in which creative mavericks can do useful work.
-- David M. Ogilvy
August 5, 2008 at 7:25 am
This quote was talking about women in technology, but I've seen this same sentiment echoed among men as well. It seems that most of the people I know in technology think things change so fast that if they left their field for a year they'd never fit back in.
My own experience suggests that it's not hard to get back into the swing of things but it's very, VERY hard to get the chance to get back in.
Big corporations especially ask for a laundry list of specific technologies and without nearly every one your resume will be rejected without a competent manager ever seeing it.
I got lucky and found a small local company that would give me the chance to make the biggest switch of all from mainframe to PC development but seriously, it took a year and a half unemployed, thousands of resumes, and a stroke of luck not to end up homeless.
But now that I'm here, all my coding skills and design experience have proved up to the job & making the switch to a whole new technology base, probably the biggest technology leap there is, really ain't that hard.
August 5, 2008 at 7:35 am
It was hard getting back in -- I had to sort of sneak in the back door, using other experience and convincing my new employer to let me do database work and coding. They didn't have the best technology and weren't willing to upgrade. I kept up with new tech at my own expense on my home system and did side work. I pursued certification on my own time and at my own expense. After three years I finally found my current position where we have the latest tech and lots of support. My skills have proved equal to the task, and I love it here. The interim was hard, emotionally and financially. While looking for this position, I found lots of employers want to pay less and work you harder, using India as an excuse -- you have to hang in there and not settle for less than you want. The excellent employers are out there and you have to be very tenacious to get them to see your worth. If you love tech like I do, it's all worth it. Sometimes I have a hard time believing I get paid for having so much fun.
August 5, 2008 at 7:37 am
jim.powers (8/5/2008)
Personally, when I get to the point where I can retire, I have no plans of un-retiring. Technology does move far to fast and I feel like I'm already behind, partly because my current employer is still running technology that is eight years old (an eternity in the technology arena). I finally decided to build a business on the side that will eventually replace my primary income (I would be happy to share what I'm doing - just send me a private message). At the point when it does replace my primary income, I will likely choose to continue part time for a while but I know that won't last long and I'm perfectly fine with that. My daughter is nine years old and I'm missing out on her growing up every day I spend at the office.
I would have to agree. I work a full time job, and my wife is working at building her own business (doing a good job, but still not quite covering all her expenses every month). We are also starting another business on the side to help financially that could also replace our current primary incomes(losses) (and yes, anyone wanting to know more can also PM me as well).
I, however, probably would keep working with the technology, even if it was just for me. I really enjoy working with computers and database systems, so perhaps I'd start doing some consulting on the side at that point, but I'd be opicky about what contracts I selected. I have three girls, 18, 14, and 10. I missed out on some commuting to Denver for 15 years, but I have tried to be involved in things they did: soccer, church activities, etc.
😎
August 5, 2008 at 8:29 am
I was in exactly the position that Steve describes in his blog. I took 3 years off to be with my son - 3 years that were priceless. Part of the way that I got prepared to reenter the Tech. workforce was to study my a** off & get certified for the currently used technology (in my case, SQL '05).
The REAL question is not whether someone can take a break & then come back to an IT position; it's whether they're willing to take a pay cut to do it. If you've taken an extended "break", you can't expect to return at the same level & pay grade. I recognized this, and was willing to return in a "junior" capacity, just to get my foot in the door - because I knew that once they saw what I could do, I'd advance quickly.
So, it comes down to this: Are you willing to do what it takes, & make the necessary sacrifices, to get back in the game. If you are, there's absolutely NO reason why you can't. If not - well, the only thing keeping you down is YOU.
August 5, 2008 at 8:39 am
I was in exactly the position that Steve describes in his blog. I took 3 years off to be with my son - 3 years that were priceless. Part of the way that I got prepared to reenter the Tech. workforce was to study my a** off & get certified for the currently used technology (in my case, SQL '05).
The REAL question is not whether someone can take a break & then come back to an IT position; it's whether they're willing to take a pay cut to do it. If you've taken an extended "break", you can't expect to return at the same level & pay grade. I recognized this, and was willing to return in a "junior" capacity, just to get my foot in the door - because I knew that once they saw what I could do, I'd advance quickly.
So, it comes down to this: Are you willing to do what it takes, & make the necessary sacrifices, to get back in the game. If you are, there's absolutely NO reason why you can't. If not - well, the only thing keeping you down is YOU.
Exactly! And you could say that about anything in life...
August 5, 2008 at 9:37 am
Most excellent editorial.
I left for about 8 years and thought I would never come back. Forgot about it and moved on! After 8 years I was back and not in defeat. I did very well in those 8 years. School, training, very worthwhile work, but not enough money to make a living. But I would do it again. SO I came back
That was about 23 years back when I returned. I went to one interview, took the first job and the rest has been history. I am deeper into it now then ever. And yes I took a junior position when I came back but was promoted rapidly and was in a lead development role within a few months.
If you have the want to and the opportunity you can make it work.
Miles...
Not all gray hairs are Dinosaurs!
August 5, 2008 at 10:05 am
I've been in IT for 15 years as a software developer. Some skills are tool specific and other skills are business specific. Constantly learning tool and business specific skills will always keep you marketable...always. The trap a lot of folks fall into is that they become specialists without being generalists. No matter what you do for money it all has some business aspect. Hopefully you do it with a sense of professionalism and attention to detail that make people take notice of your ability. In business being known is the key.
Steve thanks for the topic. I was wondering what to do next. I'm a little bored and have been contemplating turning some of my side businesses into full scale ventures. Well let's just say that I've made up my mind to tackle landscaping, advertising , and cheesecake baking simultaneously. It folks are smart and should utilize their skills to start and run businesses. Will I be tempted to tinker with every IT related aspect of the business...yes. Will I give in to that temptation...no. I have businesses to run and There will be plenty of time to tinker once the pipeline is adequately filled and we are cash flow positive.
Cheers
August 5, 2008 at 10:12 am
jeleda913 (8/5/2008)
Part of the way that I got prepared to reenter the Tech. workforce was to study my a** off & get certified for the currently used technology ...
I don't know how many people have noticed this but I think M$ certification and training is absolutely terrible. It will help you get a job but it really doesn't teach or test anything that's really worthwhile at all.
The training is so much corporate advertising that it skirts around all the things you REALLY need to know, like what doesn't work well, or at all, and how to get around it. And the testing is coerced by the laziness of using technology to perform the test that it is nothing more than a memory test of obscure commands
The REAL question is not whether someone can take a break & then come back to an IT position; it's whether they're willing to take a pay cut to do it.
And, as you said in the first paragraph, the time, energy, money and memory to train and memorise for a testing system you may have no respect for.
August 5, 2008 at 10:19 am
I got off the treadmill back in '97. It makes no sense. It is one thing to go for continual training like other professionals do. It is totally stupid to learn something that will be utterly useless in 18 months. NO OTHER PROFESSION ENGAGES IN THIS TYPE OF ACTIVITY. I only devote time to standards based technology.I will be amazed to see anyone developing with microsoft tools 10 years from now.
August 5, 2008 at 10:45 am
jim.powers (8/5/2008)
Personally, when I get to the point where I can retire, I have no plans of un-retiring. Technology does move far to fast and I feel like I'm already behind, partly because my current employer is still running technology that is eight years old (an eternity in the technology arena). I finally decided to build a business on the side that will eventually replace my primary income (I would be happy to share what I'm doing - just send me a private message). ...
How does one go about sending a private message? I didn't know it was possible.
August 5, 2008 at 10:45 am
emmchild (8/5/2008)
... Well let's just say that I've made up my mind to tackle landscaping, advertising , and cheesecake baking simultaneously. ...
Wow! Landscaping and cheesecake baking simultaneously! Is that a riding mower equipped with an oven and mixer? 😀
Myself, I love baking. We were talking about a business when my dad retired, Don's Plumbing & Baked Goods.
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[font="Arial"]Knowledge is of two kinds. We know a subject ourselves or we know where we can find information upon it. --Samuel Johnson[/font]
August 5, 2008 at 10:50 am
Loner (8/5/2008)The only manager did not micro manage me was a woman.
...
BTW I find out a bus driver can earn up to $80,000 a year, with flexible working hour, great benefits and retirement package and never worry about outsourcing.
I work up to 60 hours a week and the next thing I know my job is going to India!!!!!!!!
Am I in the wrong profession!!!!!!
The worst micromanager I ever worked for was a woman. She was also a screamer (she called it "venting"), and it didn't matter if you were the cause of her frustration -- you just had to be in the line of fire.
As for the bus driver salary, I totally agree -- it freaks me out. And just try to hire a plumber or electrician. Locally they charge $150-$200 per hour per service call, with a $100 minimum.
August 5, 2008 at 10:57 am
jpowers (8/5/2008)
jim.powers (8/5/2008)
Personally, when I get to the point where I can retire, I have no plans of un-retiring. Technology does move far to fast and I feel like I'm already behind, partly because my current employer is still running technology that is eight years old (an eternity in the technology arena). I finally decided to build a business on the side that will eventually replace my primary income (I would be happy to share what I'm doing - just send me a private message). ...How does one go about sending a private message? I didn't know it was possible.
If you look just below this post, you will see two buttons. On says PM the other ON or OFF depending if I am logged into SSC. Click the PM button to send me a PM. To send Jim a PM, find one of his posts and click the PM button in his post.
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