July 18, 2012 at 10:34 am
Lynn Pettis (7/17/2012)
If I remember correctly there is a part of Indiana that also does not recognize DST. So, depending on Daylight Savings Time or Standard Time, they are eith in the Eastern or Central time zone.
That does not sound like an accurate statement. What you may have meant is:
Parts of Northwest Indiana are in the Central Time Zone. As a result they may be on CST or CDT.
The rest of Indiana is in the Eastern Time Zone. As a result they may be on EST or EDT.
I am not sure, but I believe some parts of Indiana follow Daylight Savings and others do not. That would mean that portions of Indiana that are in the Eastern Time Zone may currently use EST or EDT as the current time.
At no time does any area change time zones, though. Those parts of Indiana in the Eastern Time Zone are ALWAYS in that time zone.
Dave
Dave
July 18, 2012 at 10:56 am
djackson 22568 (7/18/2012)
Lynn Pettis (7/17/2012)
If I remember correctly there is a part of Indiana that also does not recognize DST. So, depending on Daylight Savings Time or Standard Time, they are eith in the Eastern or Central time zone.That does not sound like an accurate statement. What you may have meant is:
Parts of Northwest Indiana are in the Central Time Zone. As a result they may be on CST or CDT.
The rest of Indiana is in the Eastern Time Zone. As a result they may be on EST or EDT.
I am not sure, but I believe some parts of Indiana follow Daylight Savings and others do not. That would mean that portions of Indiana that are in the Eastern Time Zone may currently use EST or EDT as the current time.
At no time does any area change time zones, though. Those parts of Indiana in the Eastern Time Zone are ALWAYS in that time zone.
Dave
What I said may not be what be what I meant, agreed. The intent was that depending on wether we were in Standard or Daylight time, parts of Indiana appeared to be in either Central or Eastern Time zone. Airizona appears to be in either Pacific or Mountain time zone depending on the same thing, unless you are in the Navajo Indian Reservation (or , some other locale).
July 18, 2012 at 11:46 am
I am contemplating the idea of abolishing time zones and DST using universal time. Would require some adjustment in thinking but would probably solve more problems than it would create.
Given Americans' obnoxious refusal to use common-sense things like the metric system and dollar coins instead of bills, would probably never happen.
Jay Bienvenu | http://bienv.com | http://twitter.com/jbnv
July 18, 2012 at 12:40 pm
jbnv (7/18/2012)
Given Americans' obnoxious refusal to use common-sense things like the metric system and dollar coins instead of bills, would probably never happen.
Wow.
<rant response to inappropriate post>
One could also say that given the rest of the world's obvious jealousy and obnoxious refusal to use our superior standards, it would never happen.
Or we could stop the name calling, and recognize that we are all different, and stop trying to push socialism and other failed policies on the one country that can still pay its bills - in spite of the current administration's attempts to destroy that.
</rant response to inappropriate post>
Now if we put aside the finger pointing, name calling and other inappropriate behavior, we can discuss the real issue. Why would someone accept having to change their "world" so that 10:00 PM isn't when they go to bed any more. I read a story once that covered the issue in regards to Earth bound governments (note that none of them were the US) mandating the time of day for citizens of Mars. Those on Mars had to adapt their shorter day to use Earth times, which meant they never knew if a 9:00 AM appointment was in the morning, afternoon or night.
Elimination of time zones won't happen because it is a bad idea.
Elimination of DST should happen. Whether it will or not is a political issue, and not something anyone has any right to blame on American citizens.
Dave
July 18, 2012 at 12:45 pm
Lynn Pettis (7/18/2012)
djackson 22568 (7/18/2012)
Lynn Pettis (7/17/2012)
If I remember correctly there is a part of Indiana that also does not recognize DST. So, depending on Daylight Savings Time or Standard Time, they are eith in the Eastern or Central time zone.That does not sound like an accurate statement. What you may have meant is:
Parts of Northwest Indiana are in the Central Time Zone. As a result they may be on CST or CDT.
The rest of Indiana is in the Eastern Time Zone. As a result they may be on EST or EDT.
I am not sure, but I believe some parts of Indiana follow Daylight Savings and others do not. That would mean that portions of Indiana that are in the Eastern Time Zone may currently use EST or EDT as the current time.
At no time does any area change time zones, though. Those parts of Indiana in the Eastern Time Zone are ALWAYS in that time zone.
Dave
What I said may not be what be what I meant, agreed. The intent was that depending on wether we were in Standard or Daylight time, parts of Indiana appeared to be in either Central or Eastern Time zone. Airizona appears to be in either Pacific or Mountain time zone depending on the same thing, unless you are in the Navajo Indian Reservation (or , some other locale).
I think adding the word "appears" suffices. What I am reading is that when someone tells you it is currently 1:00 PM, and your time is 2;00 PM CDT, you assume they are Mountain. If your time is 3:00 PM CDT you assume they are Pacific. Before I read "depending on DST...they are either in...Eastern or Central", which sounds like the time zone they were in changed, as opposed to it appearing to change.
As an analyst details are important to me, and I tend to question when something sounds off, as otherwise it leads to a lot of rework. This forum isn't that important, but when I read things in posts about issues someone is having, it is frustrating trying to correct errors in what was said so I can figure out how to fix my issue.
Dave
July 18, 2012 at 1:51 pm
common-sense things like the metric system
Say what?
The meter was originally defined based off of the distance between the North Pole and the equator (1/10,000,000). And later redefined as the distance light travels in 1/299,792,458 of a second (which was defined as 1/86,400 of a day) . I guess the decimal time system didn't go to far.
The same metric system which had volume as two different names, based solely upon if the firewood was cut or uncut
And electricity comes down to the coulomb, which really has no finite definition in the modern metric system. It is accepted as the charge of 16.02 quintillion electrons...
Yep, common sense
July 18, 2012 at 1:53 pm
marlon.seton (7/18/2012)
Mad Myche (7/17/2012)
a perfect instance would be the State of Michigan, which has 75000 people an hour behind the rest of the stateWhat? What?? How did you get to be the most powerful nation in the world when you have two time zones in one state?
Well, Michigan was whining that they didn't get enough land in Lower Michigan so some politicians added land from Wisconsin and called it Upper Michigan. And we all know how politicians are...
July 18, 2012 at 3:01 pm
If my knowledge of history is accurate, which it may not be but for amusement's sake it is of little importance, the English and the French negotiated that GMT would be used as the agreed prime meridian and the meter was the basis of measurement of lengths then the English kept measuring in feet.
The reasons for selection were political. More pragmatic was the reason for the English not changing to the meter.
...and since when did common sense come into it. Pah!!!
On a more serious note, there appears to be some consensus storing in UTC provides a more portable robust solution so it perhaps should be the default option that is considered and at times overruled when deemed appropriate through considered design.
In summary: there is no one correct answer (but you kids already knew that anyway).
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
July 18, 2012 at 3:02 pm
djackson 22568 (7/18/2012)
jbnv (7/18/2012)
Given Americans' obnoxious refusal to use common-sense things like the metric system and dollar coins instead of bills, would probably never happen.Wow.
<rant response to inappropriate post>
One could also say that given the rest of the world's obvious jealousy and obnoxious refusal to use our superior standards, it would never happen.
Or we could stop the name calling, and recognize that we are all different, and stop trying to push socialism and other failed policies on the one country that can still pay its bills - in spite of the current administration's attempts to destroy that.
</rant response to inappropriate post>
Now if we put aside the finger pointing, name calling and other inappropriate behavior, we can discuss the real issue. Why would someone accept having to change their "world" so that 10:00 PM isn't when they go to bed any more. I read a story once that covered the issue in regards to Earth bound governments (note that none of them were the US) mandating the time of day for citizens of Mars. Those on Mars had to adapt their shorter day to use Earth times, which meant they never knew if a 9:00 AM appointment was in the morning, afternoon or night.
Elimination of time zones won't happen because it is a bad idea.
Wow. People can read so much into a few words.
Why are time zones that great of an idea in the first place? What problem do they solve? "The current time" is ultimately just an arbitrary number.
If we do end up living on planets other than Earth, we will have to address the issue of the different day lengths whether or not we still have time zones on Earth.
As for the personal attack, I don't need to respond to that, but I will say that I cringe when I see my political allies respond like that.
Jay Bienvenu | http://bienv.com | http://twitter.com/jbnv
July 18, 2012 at 3:59 pm
jbnv (7/18/2012)
djackson 22568 (7/18/2012)
jbnv (7/18/2012)
Given Americans' obnoxious refusal to use common-sense things like the metric system and dollar coins instead of bills, would probably never happen.Wow.
<rant response to inappropriate post>
One could also say that given the rest of the world's obvious jealousy and obnoxious refusal to use our superior standards, it would never happen.
Or we could stop the name calling, and recognize that we are all different, and stop trying to push socialism and other failed policies on the one country that can still pay its bills - in spite of the current administration's attempts to destroy that.
</rant response to inappropriate post>
Now if we put aside the finger pointing, name calling and other inappropriate behavior, we can discuss the real issue. Why would someone accept having to change their "world" so that 10:00 PM isn't when they go to bed any more. I read a story once that covered the issue in regards to Earth bound governments (note that none of them were the US) mandating the time of day for citizens of Mars. Those on Mars had to adapt their shorter day to use Earth times, which meant they never knew if a 9:00 AM appointment was in the morning, afternoon or night.
Elimination of time zones won't happen because it is a bad idea.
Wow. People can read so much into a few words.
Why are time zones that great of an idea in the first place? What problem do they solve? "The current time" is ultimately just an arbitrary number.
If we do end up living on planets other than Earth, we will have to address the issue of the different day lengths whether or not we still have time zones on Earth.
As for the personal attack, I don't need to respond to that, but I will say that I cringe when I see my political allies respond like that.
Well, starting with this:
jbnv (7/18/2012)
Given Americans' obnoxious refusal to use common-sense things like the metric system and dollar coins instead of bills, would probably never happen.
I can see where the rant came from.
July 18, 2012 at 4:21 pm
July 18, 2012 at 4:45 pm
The correct answer is to store in UTC. Databases store data, and it's the job of whomever is getting the data to present in the correct format.
As for timezones and the problems they solve, it is all based that local time is relative to the locale. The sun should be overhead at noon, and the borealis should be best visible at midnight relative to location.
Daylight Savings time was a scheme created for the eco-nuts to lower lighting bills and HVAC costs. While those numbers are contradictory, retailers enjoy staying open another hour
July 18, 2012 at 11:33 pm
Solomon Rutzky (7/17/2012)
Steve Jones (7/17/2012)
CONVERT still has crazy numeric codes for conversion. Wouldn’t it make more sense to do this:
DECLARE @dt datetime
SELECT @dt = GETDATE()
SELECT CONVERT( datetime, @dt, 'dd.mm.yy')
Hey Steve. Yes, yes it would make things a ton easier to do this type of thing. And in fact it has been added to SQL Server 2012 via the new FORMAT function:
SELECT FORMAT(GETDATE(), 'D') AS [DateTimeWithStandardFormat],
FORMAT(GETDATE(), 'D', 'he') AS [DateTimeWithStandardFormatAndLocale-Hebrew],
FORMAT(GETDATE(), 'dd.mm.yy') AS [DateTimeWithCustomFormat],
FORMAT(GETDATE(), 'dd.mm.yy', 'he') AS [DateTimeWithCustomFormatAndLocale-Hebrew],
FORMAT(CONVERT(DATETIME, '2012-07-10 12:34:56.789'), 'D', 'he') AS [ConvertedStringWithStandardFormatAndLocale-Hebrew]
And for people still on SQL Server 2005 or 2008/2008R2, you can do the exact same thing via the free SQLCLR library SQL# (SQLsharp) found at http://www.SQLsharp.com/.
SELECT SQL#.Date_Format(GETDATE(), 'D') AS [DateTimeWithStandardFormat],
SQL#.Date_Format(GETDATE(), 'D', 'he') AS [DateTimeWithStandardFormatAndLocale-Hebrew],
SQL#.Date_Format(GETDATE(), 'dd.mm.yy') AS [DateTimeWithCustomFormat],
SQL#.Date_Format(GETDATE(), 'dd.mm.yy', 'he') AS [DateTimeWithCustomFormatAndLocale-Hebrew],
SQL#.Date_Format(CONVERT(DATETIME, '2012-07-10 12:34:56.789'), 'D', 'he') AS [ConvertedStringWithStandardFormatAndLocale-Hebrew]
Here is a list of supported "Standard" DateTime formats:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/az4se3k1(v=vs.80).aspx
Here is a list of supported "Custom" DateTime format string:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/8kb3ddd4(v=vs.80).aspx
...
Excellent information Solomon. Thanks
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
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July 19, 2012 at 7:20 am
Mad Myche (7/18/2012)
Daylight Savings time was a scheme created for the eco-nuts to lower lighting bills and HVAC costs.
Really? I'm surprised there were so many eco-nuts around in 1916, or that lighting bills were so much of a problem back then... 😛
July 19, 2012 at 8:13 am
paul.knibbs (7/19/2012)
Mad Myche (7/18/2012)
Daylight Savings time was a scheme created for the eco-nuts to lower lighting bills and HVAC costs.
Really? I'm surprised there were so many eco-nuts around in 1916, or that lighting bills were so much of a problem back then... 😛
Got me there, the goal was to reduce the hours of lighting needed to run all the factories for WW-I
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