June 4, 2011 at 12:07 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Lessons Learned Pay Off
June 4, 2011 at 4:22 pm
Amen!
I've had similar experience. I find that my development experience + interpersonal skills make my employer happy.
June 4, 2011 at 5:19 pm
Certification is a funny thing. Although the MS exams actually require quite a lot of work to pass, let's not forget that certification is essentially a vendor revenue stream. But the real world of database administration and software development requires a lot of different skills, creative,commercial and political, as well as the basic technical ones. I'd quite like to take the time to do an MCDBA qualification but to be honest I'm too busy learning ASP.Net, MVC, IIS and all the other stuff I have to deal with to worry about certification. And in this new connected, social world I think reputation is a lot more transparent than it once was and counts for a lot more than it it did in the past.
P.S. It's 2011 and I think the smileys available on SQL Server Central are looking a bit web 0.5 :w00t:
June 4, 2011 at 5:43 pm
Yeah i still think they are beneficial but only when you have the experience to go with it. I'm currently studying the various areas of SQL Server and will eventually get my DBA cert. Like you said, when you 'get around' to it.
I'm not following the study guides, if i can pass the exams with off the cuff knowledge and experience that i've accumulated over time, then i find it personally a better indication that I know the product well rather than just 'memorising' the theory.
And yes, having a system admin and development background has proven very helpful and kept my employer happy.
It's good to have a few certified pieces of paper, they get a bit of attention but with no experience behind them they dont mean a hell of a lot. They can help get you a job interview but experience is what really gives you the ability to command a higher salary.
June 4, 2011 at 8:51 pm
I've been certified and gone years without updating them. I have found them valuable in two ways. One it gives me focus to help learn a new skill or expand an existing one. Secondly, they demonstrate the experience and talent I do have. Just as they can create a "paper tiger", certs can demonstrate a career of technical accomplishment. All to often our colleagues focus on the first not the second. Personally, I have met more certified people that can back it up than I have met paper tigers.
One last point, I have found certification will get your resume to the top of the stack. This is particularly true in shops where HR is doing all the screening.
David
June 5, 2011 at 9:05 am
Having been in IT for 23 years, working with several platforms/languages/RDBMS, developing/supporting/integrating more applications than I can remember, and working in a variety of businesses, models and roles, I could NOT agree more with the premise of this article.
However, I'd extend Steve's premise, in part, to include academic credentials, as well.
It should be obvious at this point in human history that advanced degrees and "professional certifications" are NOT a guarantee of core competencies, talent, work ethic, AND likely do not include any ability to think critically, logically or learn from past mistakes – no, those abilities come with either highly specialized training or just quality actual experience.
In lieu of actual, verifiable experience, a degree or certification may be the only indicator of competence; however, those impressive credentials trailing a name should nonetheless be viewed with a healthy does of skepticism, and accompanied by a more rigorous screening process involving reference checking (versus credit checks :rolleyes:) along with a company-specific lab-based test that might better indicate what a given candidate can really do.
In closing, I tend to believe that the certification craze took root during the nascent and highly profitable, training cottage industries that sprang up around highly specialized vendor tools/architectures beginning in the 1990's and reaching a feverish pitch with the advent of the myriad Internet related technologies.
Don’t get me wrong: given a school and targeted environment, an MBA still means something; likewise, if you want to become a hardware engineer or develop OS’s, then an actual CompSci sheepskin might be advisable.
That said, I also believe that this shortsighted mindset amongst hiring managers has persisted (still does) because of internal territorial issues in companies, i.e., HR departments, some executives, and other non-IT “managers” want to have more control over who’s hired/fired, hence the tendency to believe academic and “professional training” credentials mean more than they really do – passing tests. :laugh:
June 5, 2011 at 10:45 am
Certification is a funny thing. Although the MS exams actually require quite a lot of work to pass, let's not forget that certification is essentially a vendor revenue stream. But the real world of database administration and software development requires a lot of different skills, creative,commercial and political, as well as the basic technical ones. I'd quite like to take the time to do an MCDBA qualification but to be honest I'm too busy learning ASP.Net, MVC, IIS and all the other stuff I have to deal with to worry about certification. And in this new connected, social world I think reputation is a lot more transparent than it once was and counts for a lot more than it it did in the past.
If you know Asp.net you would be amazed how the Asp.net MCPD exams will help you and the SQL Server MCTS exams actually covers things you need to know to be an end to end Asp.net developer. That is the reason I update both my MCPD and MCITP credentials. My current employer is a Microsoft partner so I think it gives the employer some benefit but I take the exams because the preparation process covers areas I may never use on the job but is needed to take an idea from analysis to deployment. I am not an MVC expert but I am an Asp.net, IIS and SQL Server BI expert.
In lieu of actual, verifiable experience, a degree or certification may be the only indicator of competence; however, those impressive credentials trailing a name should nonetheless be viewed with a healthy does of skepticism, and accompanied by a more rigorous screening process involving reference checking (versus credit checks ) along with a company-specific lab-based test that might better indicate what a given candidate can really do.
This is not true because all my jobs I find existing employees keeps relevant information not necessarily code to protect their positions and hide waste. In large companies there are checks and balances in place to protect the business.
Don’t get me wrong: given a school and targeted environment, an MBA still means something; likewise, if you want to become a hardware engineer or develop OS’s, then an actual CompSci sheepskin might be advisable.
MBA is useful in business areas of the software business but in areas I work an MBA knows pedestrian arithmetic which is not related to most http related development and BI, and in hardware you actually need Electrical engineering. The old AT&T paid for C++ and a kernel in public domain so if you could love ANSI C++ you may not need computer science to create the next operating system.
The exams force me to know relevant new features that can increase productivity and add value to a business application.
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
June 5, 2011 at 11:09 am
The exams force me to know relevant new features that can increase productivity and add value to a business application.
This says it all in a nutshell!
June 5, 2011 at 12:52 pm
DBA's especially Oracle dba who are certified usually are the least qualified candidates. no exam can measure up to front line experience.
June 5, 2011 at 1:22 pm
I've always thought of most certifications as the rest of the world thinks about college degrees. Just because you shoved knowledge into your head for a few years, doesn't mean you know what the heck you're doing. All you've done is show that the pre-req work was supposed to be done.
The only real exception I have for that is medical degrees, which require internships.
I'm not against certifications, but I wouldn't let the guy who just got his masters in Nuclear Engineering take over from the 60 year old dude who knows by 'feel' with no degree when the water on reactor 4 is getting too hot.
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June 5, 2011 at 2:02 pm
Thanks, but I think your responses indicate that did not understand, or directly address, what I wrote/meant.
June 5, 2011 at 2:13 pm
Excellent article Steve, and I must say I agree with virtually everything you have said. I took the two SQL 2008 MCITP exams in 2009 and actually found them very useful - I learnt a lot about areas of SQL Server development I hadn't needed to look at in day to day work before, such as sparse columns.
I fully intended to move on to the administration exams but foolishly moved house - cue eighteen months of redecorating/rebuilding! However, just last week I took 70-432 and I have to say it was a lousy exam.
It was incredibly basic and did nothing to test the day to day skills of a DBA (and yes, I did pass). But again, I did learn quite a lot whilst studying for the exam. I'm now on the way to 70-450.
The only reason I'm taking these exams is to attain a Microsoft Certified Master qualification. Due to the difficulty of obtaining this certification, I do think these lower-level exams are a good investment.
Anybody who thinks simply having a certification will cause them to walk into a job is wrong, wrong, wrong. It will, as an earlier response said, send your CV to the top of the pile. But if you can't back it up forget it.
June 5, 2011 at 2:57 pm
Throwing a spanner into the works.....
"According to the Global Knowledge & Tech Repulbic 2009 IT Skills & Salary report, 67% of hiring managers believe that certifications impact the salaries of potential employees"
BTW - its absolutely freezing in Ballarat this morning.
June 5, 2011 at 10:01 pm
When I interview candidates and I see they have a certification, I mention it and say, "Well, I won't hold that against you".
The previous comment about college degrees is my feeling as well. You go to college because you lack experience. College is designed to prove you will work hard towards a goal while gaining some understanding about the subject.
I took a practice test for the MCDBA many years ago. The first question was: "If you can create a column to accept any data type, what would you use?"
The answer was SQLVariant. I can only think of one reason for using a SQLVariant and event that reason is stupid. There are better ways to accomplish it than in the database.
I stopped the test right there. It wasn't a certification. It was a propaganda mechnism.
In defense of the certification, however, Management and the clueless (but wait, I'm being redundant), likes to show their clients lots of nomenclature besides someones name to sell them. I, myself, now that I am in management am planning to get certified on those grounds alone.
June 6, 2011 at 2:15 am
Nigel Ainscoe-432538 (6/4/2011)
And in this new connected, social world I think reputation is a lot more transparent than it once was and counts for a lot more than it it did in the past.
This is bang on... I discuss many of my problems with people on forums now and I pretty much know the quality of a person's knowledge from his previous comments. I have no idea what qualifications these people have or what job they are currently in. After a while you start to build up a feel for the quality of a persons' responses.
It is likely to depend on the knowledge of the person doing the hiring. Less technical experience of the area and they are more likely to go with qualifications as a proxy for real competence more technical experience they will more likely go with their perceived judgement of a person's competence based on more esoteric features.
That said I think technical qualifications are far more impressive than more esoteric generic qualifications... College courses and qualifications can indicate commitment but limited imagination. (I do like college courses which include some form of internship / apprenticeship)
I haven't come across computer science Phds but general Phds students do seem to be a mark of imagination passion and a bit of drive.
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