DBA Value

  • Jonathan Kehayias

    One Orange Chip

    Points: 26778

    I happen to work in an environment where I am just a DBA, and for a decently sized environment. However, having the dev background, I am quite competent in C# and VB.NET and that has played heavy in my success as a DBA, as well as in consulting work since I can switch hit to solve complex problems. It has also taught me to notice when things are better done in an application versus in the database. I sit in on development meetings with our .NET developers to know what they are doing, and to also offer ideas to them. I like to stay abreast of the changing technologies, and beyond that I a really am a total geek, so there are times that I know of a newer way to solve a problem that they haven't heard of or used yet.

    Jonathan Kehayias | Principal Consultant | MCM: SQL Server 2008
    My Blog | Twitter | MVP Profile
    Training | Consulting | Become a SQLskills Insider
    Troubleshooting SQL Server: A Guide for Accidental DBAs[/url]

  • george sibbald

    SSC Guru

    Points: 104210

    katedgrt (11/12/2008)


    Joe Johnson (11/11/2008)


    " I have seen DBA's that cannot develop and they have no idea how to help people optimize their code to take the best advantage of the platform they administrate."

    This is the type of DBA that the appellation 'Don't Bother Asking' applies to.

    can't you see the irony in this? You are having a pop at DBA's who cannot do YOUR job better than YOU can. You have a basic misunderstanding of the DBA role in many shops, If you want someone to help with your coding call them a senior developer or a development DBA, which is not the same thing as a production DBA. Remember the A stands for Administration.

    I can code to suit my requirements, I understand logical and physical design. I understand indexing strategies, I know good and bad practice, but I don't develop applications so I don't spend much time in VS and would expect developers to be better at coding than I am.

    I could go on about all the Admin things that keep me busy but lifes too short and it does not matter anyway because everyone has their own view on what a DBA should be and do.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

  • DPhillips-731960

    Hall of Fame

    Points: 3904

    Jonathan Kehayias (11/12/2008)


    I happen to work in an environment where I am just a DBA, and for a decently sized environment. However, having the dev background, I am quite competent in C# and VB.NET and that has played heavy in my success as a DBA, as well as in consulting work since I can switch hit to solve complex problems. It has also taught me to notice when things are better done in an application versus in the database. I sit in on development meetings with our .NET developers to know what they are doing, and to also offer ideas to them. I like to stay abreast of the changing technologies, and beyond that I a really am a total geek, so there are times that I know of a newer way to solve a problem that they haven't heard of or used yet.

    I agree totally. Having a DEV who is primarily a DEV but act as DBA is where I have seen problems. I have yet to see a DBA who aids in DEV (and in fact often does some DEV whether by SPs, SSIS, or data access code) to be a problem anywhere, unless it becomes so much so that they do more DEV than DBA.

    A DBA who does not get familiar with how the data both is and needs to be used, and assist to those ends, is not a great DBA.

  • Jonathan Kehayias

    One Orange Chip

    Points: 26778

    george sibbald (11/12/2008)


    katedgrt (11/12/2008)


    Joe Johnson (11/11/2008)


    " I have seen DBA's that cannot develop and they have no idea how to help people optimize their code to take the best advantage of the platform they administrate."

    This is the type of DBA that the appellation 'Don't Bother Asking' applies to.

    can't you see the irony in this? You are having a pop at DBA's who cannot do YOUR job better than YOU can. You have a basic misunderstanding of the DBA role in many shops, If you want someone to help with your coding call them a senior developer or a development DBA, which is not the same thing as a production DBA. Remember the A stands for Administration.

    I can code to suit my requirements, I understand logical and physical design. I understand indexing strategies, I know good and bad practice, but I don't develop applications so I don't spend much time in VS and would expect developers to be better at coding than I am.

    I could go on about all the Admin things that keep me busy but lifes too short and it does not matter anyway because everyone has their own view on what a DBA should be and do.

    I think that you took the comment being made out of context. I think that every DBA, including production ones, should be able to explain, and offer better methods of writing TSQL code to developers. Leave Visual Studio completely out of the picture here. The simple fact is that there are more "DBA's" that don't know the first thing about TSQL beyond the minimum amount they had to figure out to do certain tasks, than there are that do. This doesn't make them a good DBA in my opinion as they have no real understanding of performance tuning since adding indexes will only get you so far, and then you have to change up how you are doing things. The DBA should be able to offer suggestions for how to make things work better.

    Jonathan Kehayias | Principal Consultant | MCM: SQL Server 2008
    My Blog | Twitter | MVP Profile
    Training | Consulting | Become a SQLskills Insider
    Troubleshooting SQL Server: A Guide for Accidental DBAs[/url]

  • Jonathan Kehayias

    One Orange Chip

    Points: 26778

    dphillips (11/12/2008)


    I agree totally. Having a DEV who is primarily a DEV but act as DBA is where I have seen problems. I have yet to see a DBA who aids in DEV (and in fact often does some DEV whether by SPs, SSIS, or data access code) to be a problem anywhere, unless it becomes so much so that they do more DEV than DBA.

    A DBA who does not get familiar with how the data both is and needs to be used, and assist to those ends, is not a great DBA.

    From time to time, I pickup a light project that is on the Dev teams back burner, and has not real deadline, and code it. I try to work with one of the Developers though so that in the event of a problem with my code in production, there is another avenue of support, and I provide copious comments in my C# code in summary blocks that makes it self documenting in XML form, so they should be able to follow it anyway. Personally I like to sling code. I enjoy seeing the fruits of my labors take form as I work.

    Jonathan Kehayias | Principal Consultant | MCM: SQL Server 2008
    My Blog | Twitter | MVP Profile
    Training | Consulting | Become a SQLskills Insider
    Troubleshooting SQL Server: A Guide for Accidental DBAs[/url]

  • david.tyler

    SSCrazy

    Points: 2206

    I see more of a need for true DBA's in the larger organization where several database servers exist. These DBA's typically take on more of a system administrator role than developer (monitoring hardware, disk space/health, CPU/memory utilization, etc...). In the small to mid sized company, I see more of a need for the DBA/Database Developer. I came from the programming world and worked my way into database development and database administration. There is so much development happening on the database side especially since SQL 2005 that is outside of a typical programmers realm (SSIS, SSRS, SSAS). In this day and age, there is an advantage to a diverse skill set. Diverse skill sets generally justify a higher salary.

  • Steve Jones - SSC Editor

    SSC Guru

    Points: 721381

    Diverse skills if there is talent can get a higher salary. Jacks of all trades, masters of none is what so many average people have, and that's normal. That's not worth a higher salary.

    Specialists often have high salaries, but at the expense of less choice of jobs.

  • david.tyler

    SSCrazy

    Points: 2206

    I agree with you Steve. I should clarify my last statement. I know there are many developers and DBA's out there that think they should have the high salary just because they have the title. It is possible to be good at several tasks but a specialist in one area can be near great. I feel it is impossible to reach great because there is always more to learn. It really comes down to the company. I could be near great as a database developer but if programmers write inline data access how valuable am I really to the company?

  • george sibbald

    SSC Guru

    Points: 104210

    Jonathan, maybe I did take it out of context but IMHO its too simplistic to take giving advice on coding as the final arbiter of a good dba. The worlds not that clear cut and simple. as Gail said SQL server is a very wide subject and you can add value in many ways. There are plenty of jobs out there where coding is not high on the list of requirements, they have a separate development team who's responsibility that is.

    In my current job, the DBA and dev roles are clearly defined and separated, especially as dev is now outsourced., so there's all sorts of contractual issues. I like to keep my skills rounded for my own satisfaction so I highlight poorly performed code when I find it (and I do look for it) and give suggestions where I can.

    I would be justifiably insulted by any developer who had the temerity to insult my competence as a DBA simply because I had not been able to offer assistance on a particular coding issue , after all coding is the reason they were hired, and I am expected to do so many other things!

    Anyway I'm going home now (2 hours late) to delete 3 million rows out of an application table added incorrectly due to an application error. I shall do this without impacting users and under the threat of severe repercussions if anything goes wrong. And I will have 3 different ways of backing it out. Thats why I get paid more.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Viewing 9 posts - 16 through 24 (of 24 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Login to reply