September 6, 2008 at 3:44 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item An IT Union - Database Weekly (Sept 8, 2008)
September 8, 2008 at 11:53 am
¡¡What a great way to encourage more outsourcing!! :w00t:
Maybe I should've wrapped that in sarcasm tags, since not everybody recognizes the sarcasm mark.
September 8, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Nice topic...
I'm not a fan of unions for the most part, as they can stifle professional development. I have somewhat better a feeling of trade unions, since they provide more utility than just a labor negotiations and keeping poor employees in their jobs.
I think a professional organization for IT is a great idea. I've been a support of LOPSA (Leagure of Professional Systems Administrators - http://lopsa.org) for the past two years. While it may not be perfect, it is a start and requires certain ethical standards be met.
September 8, 2008 at 12:59 pm
There are as many IT organizations out there as there are disaffected ex-IT workers who think "community organizer" sounds like less work than what they were doing before. Well, almost. Heh.
IEEE has been around for decades, and zillions of other related trade organizations have programming and IT wings that nobody belongs to. I've never heard of LOPSA, but that doesn't surprise me. Sysadmin isn't typically a career that people seek out so much are thrust into...
We might have more time to self-organize as an industry if we didn't let ourselves get "motivated" into working 60+ hours per week on a regular basis. It's a vicious cycle, but if we didn't get caught in it, we wouldn't need to organize about, but we don't have time to org-... Catch-22.
I think we're all a little to competitive (at least I am) to want collective bargaining done on our behalves. (Is behalves a word?)
September 8, 2008 at 1:15 pm
David Reed (9/8/2008)
¡¡What a great way to encourage more outsourcing!! :w00t:Maybe I should've wrapped that in sarcasm tags, since not everybody recognizes the sarcasm mark.
That's always the argument against organization, that jobs will be lost if we do. Sometimes it's warranted, sometimes it's not. If such an organization actually had effective membership and were able to develop standards that made sense and didn't hurt business organizations, then benefit could be had by all without loss of jobs. Even if some standards were developed that resulted in ineffective IT professionals losing jobs, to either other candidates within the local area or outsourcing, the overall goal of quality of life for both businesses and IT would be achieved.
I think the article's conclusion that a professional organization would be more apt is well taken, as I'm not sure who the politicians WOULD go to if they wanted to get a representative cross-section of the IT community in order to influence policy.
Granted, I'm oblivious to most politicking (by choice, or perhaps 'by disgust' is more appropriate), so perhaps there are already organizations actively lobbying for the IT community as a whole and I just don't know it? If it is not present, it probably should be. Squeaky wheel gets the grease.
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September 8, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Windows Media version of the PodCast points to the "One MILL-I-ON IOPs" PodCast. iPod version is fine, though.
September 8, 2008 at 2:20 pm
I've never gotten the podcast feed to work with my Zune since the last update they did to the feed... Fortunately, I can just loop the "new" Dilbert animated comics podcast for a similar effect. (Just kidding, Steve!) :hehe:
September 8, 2008 at 3:29 pm
We already have plenty of professional organizations (IEEE-CS, ACM, DPMA, etc), but their mission is not in line with a labor union. Unions function because they have the clout of their collective membership based on the ability and willingness to strike. How many IT professionals are willing to walk a picket line to protect their rights? Without the guts to stand up to abuse as a group, we will all fall as the sheep we have been. How else do you explain the 80 hour work week, the electronic leashes, the "non-compete" nonsense, H-1Bs and the rest of the crap we take?
September 8, 2008 at 3:52 pm
In my job I get to travel to customer sites and work with the IT departments at many companies. Many of the larger companies already have the disadvantages of the union shops. The server team can't work on a workstation, the SQL team can't touch the servers, the workstation team doesn't know about any of the above other than in the most general way. Sometimes it's nearly impossible for me to do my job because I need to interact with 3 or 4 or even more people in order to get the rights/permissions necessary to install our software product.
It seems to me that most employers these days do compensate their IT staff fairly for the hours they work whether it be through salary or flex time or other less tangible benefits. I sometimes put in an 80 hour or more week if I'm on site and things aren't going well, but I'm not interested in being represented by a union who wants to stop that situation. I agree that I'd rather succeed or fail on my own and have the power to bargain with my employer based on my own merit instead of being lumped in with the herd.
September 8, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Thanks Keller, I've updated the feed. Not sure it's working, but that's the one I have from Mevio.
Feed broken at times, working on that, or I've been trying to get that worked on.
The idea of a labor union might result in some outsourcing, but not all jobs can be outsourced. And I'm not sure that all companies would do it. Unions can be done well, but they need to be reasonable. They can't assume that any concession means that they'll never get another, or that companies won't work with them.
I don't want to see a "closed shop" mentality like many industries have had, but I think that less people do more and more work, and often in a more mediocre fashion because of the amount of work.
September 8, 2008 at 4:12 pm
RE-uploaded the file for the WMV. Hope that works.
September 9, 2008 at 2:35 am
In the UK we have enough unions to cover the situation - I have a choice of joining two here and we have a union rep in our department. And no we don't have problems of job protection, we seem to work as a team (of about 40 people).
As for the professional recognition side surely this is the role for organisations such as the BCS (British Computer Society)??
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