Don't Build a Monitoring System

Author	Message
Grant Fritchey	Grant Fritchey Posted 8 years ago #786917
SSC Guru Group: General Forum Members Points: 146157 Visits: 33199	Comments posted to this topic are about the item Don't Build a Monitoring System ---------------------------------------------------- The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore Roosevelt The Scary DBA Author of: SQL Server Query Performance Tuning and SQL Server Execution Plans Product Evangelist for Red Gate Software 5
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SQLNightOwl	SQLNightOwl Posted 8 years ago #787068
SSC Eights! Group: General Forum Members Points: 810 Visits: 524	Sounds like a good plan. Do a tool comparison but don't select a "winner" because that's a matter of preference. Then drill in with a how to on each one. --Paul Hunter 6
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Steve Jones	Steve Jones Posted 8 years ago #787074
SSC Guru Group: Administrators Points: 225206 Visits: 19641	We've tried to figure out how to do this well here for years, but never came up with a good way. Plus we were bound by advertising contracts, which could have influenced us. I think part of the issue is that many people don't want to push a particular product since people will assume they are being compensated somehow. Lots of MVPs fight this image, despite all the complaints they publicly make about Microsoft products. Follow me on Twitter: @way0utwest Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help My Blog: www.voiceofthedba.com 7
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giaks0wn	giaks0wn Posted 8 years ago #787283
Grasshopper Group: General Forum Members Points: 23 Visits: 60	Reminds me of a corporate finance class with the instructor determined to make sure you could recite the formulas. Sure, everyone knew which calculator button to push and in the order necessary to get the answer, but he was determined we should know the behind the keypad process in case we needed to calculate in a moment the return value or PI. Does the same theory apply here? If you work in consultancy, could you enter any company, without your favorite monitoring app, and tell them if "everythings OK"? Discuss the benefits of third party solutions, but ceasing to teach and reinforce the fundamentals would be a grave loss. 7
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Dave Poole	Dave Poole Posted 8 years ago #787285
SSC-Insane Group: General Forum Members Points: 24309 Visits: 3494	If I am a fan of a tool then I have no qualms about pushing that tool regardless of who produces it. There will always be people who complain about a reviewer "selling out" or being partisan. They are noisy but in the minority. Most readers will simply use a review to supplement (but not replace) their own research. There will always an element of personal preference. I personally like the Quest tools but find their UI a bit fiddly and counter-intuitive, someone else may disagree on either or both points. If the reviewer sticks with the facts and keeps the emotives to the minimum then what is the problem? LinkedIn Profile www.simple-talk.com 9
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Grant Fritchey	Grant Fritchey Posted 8 years ago #787347
SSC Guru Group: General Forum Members Points: 146157 Visits: 33199	giaks0wn (9/14/2009) Reminds me of a corporate finance class with the instructor determined to make sure you could recite the formulas. Sure, everyone knew which calculator button to push and in the order necessary to get the answer, but he was determined we should know the behind the keypad process in case we needed to calculate in a moment the return value or PI. Does the same theory apply here? If you work in consultancy, could you enter any company, without your favorite monitoring app, and tell them if "everythings OK"? Discuss the benefits of third party solutions, but ceasing to teach and reinforce the fundamentals would be a grave loss. That's an excellent point. It really is important that people understand the fundamentals, whether they use a tool or not. But it's especially important if they use a tool that understand what it's doing, what it can do, why, what it can't do, why, and where it derives the information it presents. This makes you into an adminstrator of the tool, not simply a user. Great point. ---------------------------------------------------- The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore Roosevelt The Scary DBA Author of: SQL Server Query Performance Tuning and SQL Server Execution Plans Product Evangelist for Red Gate Software 5
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Grant Fritchey	Grant Fritchey Posted 8 years ago #787351
SSC Guru Group: General Forum Members Points: 146157 Visits: 33199	David.Poole (9/14/2009) If I am a fan of a tool then I have no qualms about pushing that tool regardless of who produces it. There will always be people who complain about a reviewer "selling out" or being partisan. They are noisy but in the minority. Most readers will simply use a review to supplement (but not replace) their own research. There will always an element of personal preference. I personally like the Quest tools but find their UI a bit fiddly and counter-intuitive, someone else may disagree on either or both points. If the reviewer sticks with the facts and keeps the emotives to the minimum then what is the problem? I do agree, but see Steve's point. I have my preferred tools, and anyone who has been around me for a presentation or a chat could figure them out PDQ. But, I don't want to be associated with any one company because I recognize good in almost all the companies whose tools I've worked with or evaluated. It's just way to easy to be associated with only one organization (although, I freely admit to being pretty much a shill for Microsoft, can't help that one). ---------------------------------------------------- The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore Roosevelt The Scary DBA Author of: SQL Server Query Performance Tuning and SQL Server Execution Plans Product Evangelist for Red Gate Software 7
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scott mcnitt	scott mcnitt Posted 8 years ago #787404
Old Hand Group: General Forum Members Points: 346 Visits: 437	I am not an official DBA but a database developer that wears the DBA hat a lot in what I do. In my production support role, I needed help in being more proactive in monitoring and addressing issues in our database applications. I also wanted some of the expertise that can sometimes come “built-in” to these monitoring tools. So I pushed to buy a tool. Regardless of if the tool is one that I purchase or build myself, don’t I still have some work to do and decisions to make in how to use the tool or what the data actually means? It would be great to have guidance and recommended best practices, without necessarily having to deal with how I am getting the data. Perhaps even something as simple as the pro / con of deploying the tool on the same server that it is monitoring. 6
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Jack Corbett	Jack Corbett Posted 8 years ago #787405
SSC Guru Group: General Forum Members Points: 71027 Visits: 14951	We had short debate about this in planning for SQLSaturday #21 - Orlando. One of the sponsors wanted to have some time to do a demo of one of their products, beyond a table at the event. IMO, there is nothing wrong with an event providing that time, provided it is made clear that this is a vendor sponsored session and will be a bit a of a sales pitch. I know I would appreciate articles/sessions on a specific product. Comparisons articles are great, but you can't really be an expert on each of the products, so I'd just assume learn about why you chose the one you are using, how you are using it, and what are your favorite and least favorite features. I'd personally accept a session to an event that was something like, How [Insert Product Here] helped me do X, provided it was submitted by someone not employed by the vendor. Jack Corbett Applications Developer Don't let the good be the enemy of the best. -- Paul Fleming At best you can say that one job may be more secure than another, but total job security is an illusion. -- Rod at work Check out these links on how to get faster and more accurate answers: Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help Need an Answer? Actually, No ... You Need a Question How to Post Performance Problems Crosstabs and Pivots or How to turn rows into columns Part 1 Crosstabs and Pivots or How to turn rows into columns Part 2 9
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Grant Fritchey	Grant Fritchey Posted 8 years ago #787415
SSC Guru Group: General Forum Members Points: 146157 Visits: 33199	Jack Corbett (9/14/2009) We had short debate about this in planning for SQLSaturday #21 - Orlando. One of the sponsors wanted to have some time to do a demo of one of their products, beyond a table at the event. IMO, there is nothing wrong with an event providing that time, provided it is made clear that this is a vendor sponsored session and will be a bit a of a sales pitch. I know I would appreciate articles/sessions on a specific product. Comparisons articles are great, but you can't really be an expert on each of the products, so I'd just assume learn about why you chose the one you are using, how you are using it, and what are your favorite and least favorite features. I'd personally accept a session to an event that was something like, How [Insert Product Here] helped me do X, provided it was submitted by someone not employed by the vendor. You would, and I would, but the big conferences and most of the smaller conferences, won't. And I think that's a pity. I can go to a session on how Tom LaRock uses Microsoft Operations Manager within his enterprise. But I can't go to one where MVP X uses Product Y within his enterprise, as a part of the show. It's only going to be at the booth or in a side program at lunch or something. I just don't like it. On the other hand, I don't want the conferences to turn into an extended sales pitch in every single session, and they could. ---------------------------------------------------- The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore Roosevelt The Scary DBA Author of: SQL Server Query Performance Tuning and SQL Server Execution Plans Product Evangelist for Red Gate Software 7
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