I agree completely. I was a software developer and DBA for just over 20 years (wait... that makes me old). In any case, it always was one of my pet peeves to see the people who skated through a few classes and passed themselves off as seasoned developers only to find that they were hacks at best. No discipline, testing, etc. Now that I've moved to the business side, it is even more disheartening to see all of the bad developers out there. And I think that in today's world of outsourcing, we are seeing a growing "manufacturing" community of software developers and very few thinkers, designers, etc. Just pure assembly line programmers who have no clue what the real results of their coding could be. I could go on and on, but I don't have the time. In retrospect, I wish we could sue too. Maybe fewer bad programmers would be out there and the good ones would get the pay they deserve. On a positive note, most of the DBAs and Sys Admins I run into are usually really competent.