Well Gary I have to agree with you there. However it is at that point where applications that can turn a diagram into usable code come in handy. Granted generated code is not always the best code, it provides a framework for the work at hand. I have found it useful to be able to go back and forth between a graphical representation for the conceptual view and go to the code (text) to make the fine tuning. Without the ability to 'See' the objects in context I find myself slipping back into procedural (spaghetti) code rather than object-oriented code. I guess that shows my age and that I started out as a programmer but not of databases where I find myself now.