August 25, 2009 at 2:47 am
Hi all,
One of the things that we're looking into at the moment involves ways in which we can improve the site navigation. I mean this in the broadest possible sense of the word navigation. Currently, (as you may be aware), articles are tagged by authors/administrators, and a navigation system is created using these tags. We also display some of the most recent, and most popular articles (with popularity biased towards recently popular rather than popular for all time) on the homepage.
Finally, when you actually view an article, it will generally offer you some links to so-called 'related' content, in two sections, one near the top of the article, and the other near the end of the article.
There is also a search (Google custom search).
What we'd like to do is try and gather some feedback from you, the site users, on what you like, what you don't like and how we might be able to improve the site for you so that you can get straight to the content you want/need, as well as creating a good experience for first time visitors to the site (recognising that long time site users probably use the site slightly differently).
A few topics you might like to consider to get you started:
Obviously, we internally have some of our own opinions already formed on these sort of things, but we're keeping a pretty open mind. If you've got examples of a sort of navigation that would work well, let us know and we'll put the ideas into the mix!
Mel
Mel HarbourProject ManagerRed Gate Software
August 25, 2009 at 8:30 am
- Do you like articles being categorised? Is the current categorisation any good? How could it be improved?
Definitely think you need some sort of category or tag(s) for each article. The hard part is that the authors add them and sometimes are too general.
- Do you ever browse for articles on the site, or are you usually trying to find a specific topic?
I rarely, if ever, browse the site. I either search for a specific topic or I read the articles in the newsletter.
- Are related content links relevant?
I like the related content, especially if there is a multi-part series. I'd like to see all the available articles in the series show as related content.
- Do you think that users would help improve the 'related content' information?
I'm not sure how users could improve related content. Can you expand your thoughts?
- Does the search return relevant results for you (particularly when you know that a given article exists somewhere!)?
[/ul]
Usually what I am looking for shows up, but not necessarily on immediately. I'd like a way to add a category to search like "Category:Articles Tally Table". Normally because I am searching for a particular article I don't want to see forum posts or the list of items tagged as "Tally Table".
My personal request is a way to search for forum posts with "n" or fewer responses. When I work the forums I prefer to try to answer questions that have not been answered. Recent Posts is good, but I really want and Unanswered Posts link. In the forum search you have include keywords.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
Check out these links on how to get faster and more accurate answers:
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
Need an Answer? Actually, No ... You Need a Question
August 25, 2009 at 9:39 am
The main site improvement I'm still looking for is a FAQ in the options on the left of the page, between Home and Articles.
Other than that, I'm fine with how it works.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
August 25, 2009 at 9:42 am
Jack Corbett (8/25/2009)
- Do you like articles being categorised? Is the current categorisation any good? How could it be improved?
Definitely think you need some sort of category or tag(s) for each article. The hard part is that the authors add them and sometimes are too general.
- Do you ever browse for articles on the site, or are you usually trying to find a specific topic?
I rarely, if ever, browse the site. I either search for a specific topic or I read the articles in the newsletter.
- Are related content links relevant?
I like the related content, especially if there is a multi-part series. I'd like to see all the available articles in the series show as related content.
- Do you think that users would help improve the 'related content' information?
I'm not sure how users could improve related content. Can you expand your thoughts?
- Does the search return relevant results for you (particularly when you know that a given article exists somewhere!)?
[/ul]
Usually what I am looking for shows up, but not necessarily on immediately. I'd like a way to add a category to search like "Category:Articles Tally Table". Normally because I am searching for a particular article I don't want to see forum posts or the list of items tagged as "Tally Table".
My personal request is a way to search for forum posts with "n" or fewer responses. When I work the forums I prefer to try to answer questions that have not been answered. Recent Posts is good, but I really want and Unanswered Posts link. In the forum search you have include keywords.
I'm not sure that we've particularly crystalised any ideas yet. More just thinking about it generally and trying to consider how to work out whether posts are related to others in an accurate/useful manner.
Mel
Mel HarbourProject ManagerRed Gate Software
August 25, 2009 at 9:42 am
GSquared (8/25/2009)
The main site improvement I'm still looking for is a FAQ in the options on the left of the page, between Home and Articles.Other than that, I'm fine with how it works.
Do you ever use the 'tags' system within the articles section?
Mel
Mel HarbourProject ManagerRed Gate Software
August 25, 2009 at 11:10 am
Mel Harbour (8/25/2009)
Hi all,One of the things that we're looking into at the moment involves ways in which we can improve the site navigation. I mean this in the broadest possible sense of the word navigation. Currently, (as you may be aware), articles are tagged by authors/administrators, and a navigation system is created using these tags. We also display some of the most recent, and most popular articles (with popularity biased towards recently popular rather than popular for all time) on the homepage.
Finally, when you actually view an article, it will generally offer you some links to so-called 'related' content, in two sections, one near the top of the article, and the other near the end of the article.
There is also a search (Google custom search).
What we'd like to do is try and gather some feedback from you, the site users, on what you like, what you don't like and how we might be able to improve the site for you so that you can get straight to the content you want/need, as well as creating a good experience for first time visitors to the site (recognising that long time site users probably use the site slightly differently).
A few topics you might like to consider to get you started:
- Do you like articles being categorised? Is the current categorisation any good? How could it be improved?
I think that articles need to be categorized, yes. No, I'm not crazy about the current categorization, but I don't have a good solution to offer. I feel that you need to differentiate by version of SQL Server, but how much and where you break down from there... it's hard to say.
- Do you ever browse for articles on the site, or are you usually trying to find a specific topic?
If I'm doing a search on the site, it's because I'm looking for a particular topic or problem.
- Are related content links relevant?
Seldom. I don't usually click on them and I've not found them to be that accurate.
- Do you think that users would help improve the 'related content' information?
Possibly. But then you could gaming of the system, bad information from ill-informed reads...
- Does the search return relevant results for you (particularly when you know that a given article exists somewhere!)?
[/ul]
Usually, yes.
Obviously, we internally have some of our own opinions already formed on these sort of things, but we're keeping a pretty open mind. If you've got examples of a sort of navigation that would work well, let us know and we'll put the ideas into the mix!
Mel
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
August 25, 2009 at 11:34 am
Mel Harbour (8/25/2009)
GSquared (8/25/2009)
The main site improvement I'm still looking for is a FAQ in the options on the left of the page, between Home and Articles.Other than that, I'm fine with how it works.
Do you ever use the 'tags' system within the articles section?
Mel
Nope.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
August 25, 2009 at 11:41 am
I often want to search for a specific string that was posted by a specific author; so searching for "Jeff Moden"+"Tally" yields lots of results to dig through for the original post or article; or even when i want to search my own posts because i KNOW i answered a similar question; so searching for "Lowell" + "MillionRowTable" gets me close, but not a perfect search.
Lowell
August 25, 2009 at 11:47 am
As I have said before, I really do think that the Search (and Implicit Navigation) are the weakest aspects of SSC. I think that the "Explicit Navigation" (Forums structure and listings, "recent active posts, etc." are OK, so I will not talk about them in this post.
At the same time, the "Social Tagging" and "Implict Navigation" that goes on at StackOverflow.com (and its sister sites like ServerFault.com) is their *biggest* strength, by far. Plus I think that these types of features could mesh very smoothly here at SCC (for the users anyway). Plus it would be a good way to introduce some of the other "Web 2.0" type social networking features without disrupting what already works well for the user community.
Details:
1) "Social Tagging": users add the tags they think apply to an article, thread or even post (SO does not have post tagging, but I think th it would be a big boon). Don't restrict this to just articles; the functional differences to User between Articles, Scripts, Threads, Posts, Blogs, Editorials, etc. is one of it's biggest problems in this regard. The Forum-threads have a very adequate explicit navigation system, but nothing else does, and the implicit-navigation is so weak as to be virtually unusable, so user just don't browse or find this other content)
1a) The number of tags attached to something must be limited. It just doesn't work otherwise (long explanation, but its true)
1b) The ability to "Tag-Edit" needs to be graded and controlled somehow. SO uses their "reputation" like our points, and that seems like a good idea to me. Without this the tagging has no stability and you get Tag-Thrashing". Basically, the more points a member had, the more free they would be to edit tags. This is essentially a Tag-Editing level that members attain, somthing lke this ("posts" below means all content-type):
LEVEL
0: MIN - can only add existing tags to your own posts
1: TAG - can add existing tags to other peoples posts
2: ADD - can add new tags to the system
3: EDIT - can remove or change tags on a post
4: DEL - can delete or "block" exising tas so that hey cannot be used.
5: LCK - can lock tags on a post so that they cannot be changed (probably should be temporary)
1c) Awarding: the table above needs to be appied to some User point scale. we already have that, so all we need to do is to map the levels aove to point scores, probably at some simple logarithmic scale.
1d) Skew: however, there is a problem with the QOTD points in that they really skew the low end of the scores, and the low end of the scores is very important to the motivational aspect. I would recommend not counting them for this particular scale.
1e) "Recognition": one of the most important aspects: I would suggest that a user's Tag-Editor level be reflected in a badge, medal, etc. of some kind in the user info-box on he right.
1f) Motivation: there should be some kind small encouragement for addng tags to things. Maybe1 point for every X posts tagged.
more later ...
[font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc. [/font][font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font]
August 25, 2009 at 12:08 pm
my simple thoughts:
FAQ page...probably easier to request than implement
"How to Post Questions Properly for Faster and Tested Answers" page...in BOLD at the top of all "Post New Topic" pages....:-P
Improved search that will include/exclude areas like "Articles" / "Newsletters" etc...I find it difficult when i search and end up on a newsletter page...with no idea which article contains what I am searching for. The ability to only search within articles on the proposed new FAQ would also be helpful
single click "subscribe to topic"...without moving off page and this flag then used to
filter "recent posts" options to only display what I have subscribed to.
When replying to a post...the ability to also view/review the post to which you are replying without losing the contents of your own carefully constructed response.
fyi... I am a relative newbie on this forum, and if some of the points I have raised are already available, then I apologise for lack of research and pls point me in the right direction.
regards gah
________________________________________________________________
you can lead a user to data....but you cannot make them think
and remember....every day is a school day
August 25, 2009 at 12:15 pm
2) "Tag Usage":
so what do we do with these wonderful tags now that we have them?
2a) Visibility: tags show up on their posts (remember "posts" means all content): clicking on one takes you to a tag-seach/navigation page
2b) Tag-cloud: somewhere on the right...
2c) Searchig: tag-search list all content that matches that tag. IMHO, the search results should *start* with the post just viewed in the middle, and all other mthcing content sorted chronologically.
2d) Refine search, Tags: adding more tags adds WHERE .. AND clauses for each addl tag.
[font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc. [/font][font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font]
August 25, 2009 at 12:29 pm
gah (8/25/2009)
fyi... I am a relative newbie on this forum, and if some of the points I have raised are already available, then I apologise for lack of research and pls point me in the right direction.
Actually, IMHO feedback from newbies is the most valuable kind. If something is available but someone new can't find it or doesn't realize it, that's arguably even worse than not having it in the first place (because (1) it was already paid for, and (2) because "we already have that", its not on anybodies list to provide).
[font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc. [/font][font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font]
August 25, 2009 at 12:30 pm
gah (8/25/2009)
my simple thoughts:...
single click "subscribe to topic"...without moving off page and this flag then used to
filter "recent posts" options to only display what I have subscribed to.
When replying to a post...the ability to also view/review the post to which you are replying without losing the contents of your own carefully constructed response.
...
Amen on needing to see the OP in the reply window. Good thing for tabbed browsing, but still a pain.
I also agree with you and Jack about improving workflow when working the forums.
I don't know if I have the answer, but currently it's cumbersome to keep up with my answer posts.
I hate to think what Gail or some of the other heavy hitters go through.
I would like to see a view of the threads I've responded to in the last X days that have replies on them.
That would be pretty handy for follow-up.
I'd like to see a list of threads with 2 or fewer replies and also an ability for the OP to mark the thread as answered.
Narrowing by these search criteria would enable us to help more people.
Cheers!
~BOT
Craig Outcalt
August 25, 2009 at 12:49 pm
SQLBOT (8/25/2009)
gah (8/25/2009)
my simple thoughts:...
single click "subscribe to topic"...without moving off page and this flag then used to
filter "recent posts" options to only display what I have subscribed to.
When replying to a post...the ability to also view/review the post to which you are replying without losing the contents of your own carefully constructed response.
...
Amen on needing to see the OP in the reply window. Good thing for tabbed browsing, but still a pain.
I also agree with you and Jack about improving workflow when working the forums.
I don't know if I have the answer, but currently it's cumbersome to keep up with my answer posts.
I hate to think what Gail or some of the other heavy hitters go through.
I would like to see a view of the threads I've responded to in the last X days that have replies on them.
That would be pretty handy for follow-up.
I'd like to see a list of threads with 2 or fewer replies and also an ability for the OP to mark the thread as answered.
Narrowing by these search criteria would enable us to help more people.
Cheers!
~BOT
I use the subscription management page to see what threads I've been on recently, but it requires some management, and it would be really nice if it had some ability to both indicate if new posts have occurred, and had a pages list like the forums do so I could skip to the last page directly.
Since I generally hover in the top 10 on volume of posts per day, and rarely go below the top 20, and periodically into the top 5, I probably count as a "heavy hitter", and that's how I manage it.
It's not as efficient as I would like, but it does work.
On the other hand, that page is a pain to get to, since you have to go through the account management pages. I have it bookmarked, but I have to set that up on each computer that I use for this site.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
August 25, 2009 at 12:53 pm
Nice feedback.
FYI on replying, there's a "last 10 posts" section below the reply window. Open it by clicking the + on the right.
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