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Better Training


Better Training

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Steve Jones
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Koen Verbeeck
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I have a degree in computer science. For about 95%, it did not learn me anything practical that I still use today.
The basics of SQL of course and a little bit of project/software management, that's about it. That's university I guess, a lot of theory and not enough practice. Anyway, it did teach me analytical skills and all of the math is nice too. It will come in handy when helping with my kids homework :-D


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Gary Varga
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Koen Verbeeck (5/13/2014)
I have a degree in computer science. For about 95%, it did not learn me anything practical that I still use today.
The basics of SQL of course and a little bit of project/software management, that's about it. That's university I guess, a lot of theory and not enough practice. Anyway, it did teach me analytical skills and all of the math is nice too. It will come in handy when helping with my kids homework :-D


I can't help it. English is probably your second or even your third language but...it did not teach me (not "learn me").

I am really sorry and it is totally pedantic but there is a major problem with 1st language English speakers getting this wrong so they might see this as an example of it being OK.

Sorry everyone. Back to the debate...

Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
Koen Verbeeck
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Gary Varga (5/13/2014)
Koen Verbeeck (5/13/2014)
I have a degree in computer science. For about 95%, it did not learn me anything practical that I still use today.
The basics of SQL of course and a little bit of project/software management, that's about it. That's university I guess, a lot of theory and not enough practice. Anyway, it did teach me analytical skills and all of the math is nice too. It will come in handy when helping with my kids homework :-D


I can't help it. English is probably your second or even your third language but...it did not teach me (not "learn me").


Officially it is my 3rd language ;-)
(but I speak it better than my second language, which is French)


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Gary Varga
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I think that the problem is twofold:

1) Graduates with Computer Science degrees have little understanding of applying what they have been taught in the real world.

2) Non-Computer Science graduates (both non-graduates and graduates of non-computing degrees) never learn the theory.

For the first issue, I have recently been discussing graduates becoming involved in an open source project to assist in code maintenance activities such as analysing faults, debugging and dealing with other peoples code (or ones own months later). The general consensus was that undergraduates would probably get the best experience on an internal, controlled project as opposed to a live, open one as otherwise we are likely to see another Heartbleed and/or tarnished reputations for either the educational institute and/or the student before their career has even started. That would be additional and unnecessary pressure.

The second issue requires encouragement and incentives for those without the training to do this. In the UK we have Continuous Professional Development (CPD). It may be called the same elsewhere and probably did originate elsewhere. This requires the acknowledgement that this is an area for an individual to develop. There are FREE university modules available now so cost of training is not an excuse. It is up to individuals and their employers to agree a shared commitment towards this.

PS Koen rocks!!!

Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
call.copse
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I do think there should be a safe environment where students can learn the theory without being overly concerned about practicalities - this could be the first year of the degree. More practical exposure after that would ensure that students are not intimidated by real things and doing real work - while the theory continues.

I guess here there is a problem with what the practical stuff might be - Java, .Net, T-SQL, Ruby on Rails, something less directly practical? My understanding is that Java is most common on undergrad courses, .Net is felt to be more sullied and 'vocational'. Still, as long as they stay away from PHP and Perl...
call.copse
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[Apologies, accidental double post]
Neil Burton
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I've been lucky enough to land in the world of business intelligence with no prior experience other than asking my now colleagues if they could make or change reports to provide the business I was working in with more relevant information. This means that I'm constantly on the hunt for training, whether leading to Microsoft Certification or otherwise. I know that Gary has certainly provided me with some useful advice about UK based courses and finally the company has said that they'll pay for some formal training. The big question is of course, how much will they pay? Up to now though, short of some basic 'this is a SELECT statement', 'this is GROUP BY', at the beginning, I've taught myself. Every day I'm gaining valuable experience but I'd definitely like to have something on paper, whether it's a Microsoft cert, a college course or a company's proprietary BI certificate.

Corrected grammar


On two occasions I have been asked, "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.
—Charles Babbage, Passages from the Life of a Philosopher

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Dalkeith
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I definitely think that would be a good step towards improving competency.

The older professions certainly do that - medicine, accountancy, teaching, trades of all sorts… I guess its because our discipline is relatively young in comparison.

I m pretty sure there are various education establishments that will run courses for people on day release - I think it is probably more unusual though. More genarally in the UK I believet students are recommended to do things like summer vocational placement. Very much left up to the motivated students though.
Gary Varga
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BWFC (5/13/2014)
I've been lucky enough to land in the world of business intelligence with no prior experience other than asking my now colleagues if they could make or change reports to provide the business I was working in with more relevant information. This means that I'm constantly on the hunt for training, whether leading to Microsoft Certification or otherwise. I know that Gary has certainly provided me with some useful advice about UK based courses and finally the company has said that they'll pay for some formal training. The big question is of course, how much will they pay? Up to now though, short of some basic 'this is a SELECT statement', 'this is GROUP BY', at the beginning, I've taught myself. Every day I'm gaining valuable experience but I'd definitely like to have something on paper, whether it's a Microsoft cert, a college course or a company's proprietary BI certificate.

Corrected grammar


Have you seen https://www.coursera.org/course/db ?

Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
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