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Developers and DBAs Expand / Collapse
Posted Tuesday, December 5, 2006 5:23 PM
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Sounds like you did a great job. And if they didn't agree, then they could have discussed it!

You made some of the points i was going to make.

In todays climate 'being helpful' is usually a bad thing. It has to do with the nature of offering. If they express interest and you help them then thats great. If you offer, and you are not a good team with trust and communication, then it can be taken many different ways. And you have no way of knowing how they will take it. They could take it as 'they must think they know more than me', 'they must think i am stupid', 'they are making me look bad', etc...!

However if you help them when they ask for it then you will get more respect and they will start trusting you more. Just the nature of things. This is true for most people. Even some of the people posting.

To make it more of a technical post perhaps you could have included an example of what you did.

Post #328151
Posted Tuesday, December 5, 2006 6:21 PM
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What a terrible article. There are a bajillion stories that nearly anyone can tell about how messed up a previous workplace may have been.  It is silly to mis-represent this article to make it seem like it has something relevant to say about the relationship between developers and DBAs.

Post #328167
Posted Wednesday, December 6, 2006 9:28 AM
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This thing happen anytime anywhere, no matter you are contractor or staff. I learn it through the hard way too. Now I just do what ever I can do under my user right. That's might because I still kindly like be a contractor in this area.

Post #328377
Posted Wednesday, December 6, 2006 2:39 PM
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Good article about trying to work together. But it goes both ways. I'm a DBA and we have a developer who does EVERYTHING as a DTS package. Each step in the package has two 'side' steps to email her if that step is 1) successful or 2) fails. Yes for every step in the package. We try to get her to change her ways, but nothing happens. She will have a problem and then makes it our problem to solve.


Post #328544
Posted Thursday, December 7, 2006 10:04 AM
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The above are all good responses.  I don't think anyone has an overwhelming ability to resiliance to dysfunctional corporate / work group behavior.  It is interesting to consider or discover the reasons for the behavior.  Incompetence, paranoia, fear.  Does it pay to speak in private and directly to people who are behaving dysfunctially about what is happening?  I guess it depends.
Post #328839
Posted Thursday, December 7, 2006 10:28 AM

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One word that comes to mind for me when I read this article is diplomacy.

It's important to think before you talk, and be careful what you say, and to whom you say it. Know who you can trust.

Such is the nature of politics in the workplace.

Good, ranty article.

Janet, how about an article about your DTS solution? I'd like to see it and have discussion about it.

Post #328848
Posted Monday, January 8, 2007 5:58 AM


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Story of my previous company (mine was around 3000 employees company with a DBA team around 15 people in different verticals, sql server 4 people were there in which one is MVP )=>

I got 3+ year exp, in which 2 year was Appln Dev from there got into DBA team. Initially with my PM's (he was the primary DBA for that project) guidance i been in DW project, in which i did the same task of yours creating Dimension and fact tables writing Stored Procedure, using Dynamic Task to configure server, I used INI files rather than tables as client was comfortable with that. I did the same task as yours my other DBA team members most of them were atleast 5+ year exp, so they were not comfortable intially seeing me in DBA team with zero exp. Mine was little bit dev kind of work initially so still they were not comfortable with DW or my kinda of work. But I proudly say I could win the heart of all those well experienced DBA's and also almost all the Sql developers in the company. My greatest dream was to become MVP for which my peers encouraged me and the MVP in our team guided and mentored me. But I couldnt be MVP, as currently i am working for Microsoft... I miss my old firm, old DBA team, DB/other developers , my old PM, everyone ...

I think either you were in wrong crowd  or things didnt turn good for you there... Attitude plays a big role in this kind of job...



Post #335012
Posted Thursday, July 19, 2007 8:08 AM
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I've been there. When your boss is threatened by your expertise. That sour taste they have never goes away and work conditions can be unbearable, even when you are doing something you love. I  worked with another developer who allowed me to submit a her approved design as my own (I changed one textbox). My boss told me it was a poor design and not user freindly.  Sometimes you just have to walk away.
Post #383286
Posted Thursday, November 29, 2007 8:18 AM


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"People vs. People"...sigh...that's called politics.

Your story cites several political problems that originated with interactions based on development you were doing.

Basic Rules for Developers Entering a New Development Environment

1. The person(s) who ha(s/ve) been there before know something you don't. Find out what it is. In particular, find out how they've been doing things, and ask why they did it that way (look very puzzled, NOT like a code hawk that just found a juicy bug).

2. Until you've completed rule #1, do not volunteer for anything, and keep your mouth shut in all public meetings (unless you can ask a question to advance the completion of rule #1).

3. Do EVERYTHING you're asked to do, EXACTLY as you're asked to do it, until you've completed rule #1. Make sure to get a complete list of all work products you are expected to produce. Make sure to ask if any standards or examples that your boss likes are available for you to review and imitate. Slavishly imitate these work products, while making sure any information YOU consider important is ALSO included. Don't get caught in noncompliance with precedent when you're still finding out what the precedent is, why it is, and how it became that way.

4. Once you've completed rule #1, never do more than one new thing at a time. Do your best to discuss it with the people most likely to object, and if they seem to take it as their idea during the course of the discussion, APPLAUD their idea, thank them for their input, and ask if they'd please comment on your work as you implement "their" idea.

The list can go on, but these four, all dependendent on #1, are the mimimum necessary rules to keep from making powerful political enemies by your own actions before you are ready to make these enemies by your own choice. And that, my friend, is another lesson entirely.
Post #427511
Posted Thursday, November 29, 2007 9:27 AM



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Hello, Janet,

There's an old saying: "A fish rots from the head on down." Dysfunctional organisations are usually that way because the people at or near the top of them are poor leaders and managers.

Capitalism has many advantages, but it's not very democratic, and you and your colleagues unfortunately can't vote the rascals out. So here are your options:

1. Outlast them. A variation on the "sit down, shut up and hang on" bumper-sticker philosophy. Not a lot of fun, but nothing lasts forever, including bad management (although it may often seem otherwise).

2. Leave them. Find greener pastures - and as a previous poster suggested, ask good interview questions so you can better see just how green a particular new pasture might be. Potential problems: sometimes you find out after the fact the new place really isn't an improvement on the old; or that the person at the top who made it a good place to work in turn leaves, and is replaced by Darth Vader on your watch.

3. Become a consultant. This might be the best of all worlds. You usually get paid well, your advice gets listened to respectfully (although little may be done with it later on), and you are freed from much of the political nonsense in which the permanent staff too often is immersed. Plus, you get a chance to see how the organisation works; inside information like that is really valuable, should you later consider seeking permanent employment at the place.

Remember, too, that Oz doesn't exist in reality; there is no Great Good Place which is the perfect company to work in. There are always trade-offs, and you need to decide what's most important to you, and what you can tolerate. Happy hunting!

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