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Are the posted questions getting worse? Expand / Collapse
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Posted Tuesday, July 29, 2014 7:32 PM


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The Dixie Flatline (7/29/2014)
Country music is grounded in three chords and the truth.

But which music is grounded in three discords and a white lie?


Tom
Post #1597546
Posted Tuesday, July 29, 2014 7:43 PM


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Jeff Moden (7/29/2014)
The Dixie Flatline (7/28/2014)
Now THIS is a Terminator...



Ok... I'm going to have to check the house for hidden cameras. That's a picture of me doing a code review before coffee.

Jeff, I'm disappointed, I thought you would be a bit fiercer than that.


Tom
Post #1597548
Posted Tuesday, July 29, 2014 7:48 PM


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Ed Wagner (7/29/2014)
My DBCC Timewarp has malfunctioned and Koen cracked the crystal ball (after getting it from Lynn, who got it from Grant), so you'll have to take your best guess at the DDL.

You should just make the cracked crystal ball work; it's easy enough, I know from experience that when cracked it's OK provide the person working it is cracked too. But the important thing is to repair DBCC timearp and retrieve the crystal ball before it was cracked, so that less fortunate threadizens can use it as well as the cracked 98%.

edit: Dalmations! a W fell through the crack.


Tom
Post #1597549
Posted Wednesday, July 30, 2014 6:26 AM


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TomThomson (7/29/2014)
The Dixie Flatline (7/29/2014)
Country music is grounded in three chords and the truth.

But which music is grounded in three discords and a white lie?
Easy, bagpipes.


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Post #1597682
Posted Wednesday, July 30, 2014 7:22 AM
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TomThomson (7/29/2014)
Jeff Moden (7/29/2014)
The Dixie Flatline (7/28/2014)
Now THIS is a Terminator...



Ok... I'm going to have to check the house for hidden cameras. That's a picture of me doing a code review before coffee.

Jeff, I'm disappointed, I thought you would be a bit fiercer than that.


Yeah, I really pictured you more as the Yul Brenner character from Westworld.


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What’s so unpleasant about being drunk?
You ask a glass of water. -- Douglas Adams
Post #1597713
Posted Wednesday, July 30, 2014 8:01 AM
Old Hand

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Lynn Pettis (7/28/2014)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/28/2014)
Koen Verbeeck (7/28/2014)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/28/2014)
SQLRNNR (7/28/2014)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/28/2014)
Ed Wagner (7/28/2014)
SQLRNNR (7/27/2014)
Jeff Moden (7/26/2014)
SQLRNNR (7/26/2014)
But the BS around rep just sucks.


That might be where the word "Overflow" comes from.


So they named it stack overflow because it is really just Diarrhea?

The last time I checked out stack overflow, it was just that. Maybe it got better since then, but I don't use it for anything so I wouldn't know.


I like Stack Overflow, they've done a great job, I've lost count over the answers I've gotten there. I'm not saying they're perfect, but the amount of loathing they get from you guys is just not proportionate to any actual problems over there that I can see, so I'm wondering what the real deal is? Did they treat some of you in a manner that was determined to be below your expectations or something? Not fawn over the 5 digit SSC rep or something?


Glad you like SO.

I have seen roughly 50% of the answers to be wrong over there. You can't fix that unless you have asked a question. Why ask a question just to get rep? All that says is the rep is a game to play.

Rep is worthless. SSC points are worthless and I could really care less about that stuff because it doesn't translate to anything for anybody else.

But why take this to the personal attack level? I didn't see anybody attack you personally or directly. People reading the series of entries should be able to understand that it is good natured fun. If that is not obvious enough, then I apologize for the word assimilation.


Good grief, the ol "personal attack" meme again. Thats fine, have at it.


Well, if you don't like that meme, don't get personal. It's quite easy
Your posts could be read as we're all a bunch of old grumpy SSC fanatics (mostly true for most people here ) who like to take a dump on the new shiny kid on the block, SO.

Well thats true, you guys could take it personally. After all, it IS your posts being held up for examination. For every post I replied to, they were at one time posted by someone, and maybe nothing but cheerleading was expected in return, and I can understand that. I'm certainly grasping for motivations for these posts also, so theres that. "Attack"? Well, although I don't think its necessarily a valid characterization, I don't think the characterizations of SO were worthy of posting on here either, so theres that.
Personally I don't think any of "us" is jealous over SO. SSC is a totally different site - a forum - while SO is a Q&A site with same "gamification". Here at SSC discussions are encouraged, advice is given and people can be mentored. At SO, well euhm, not But SO is great for straightforward questions and answers, where not too much debate is necessary.

I think that SO wants to be great for straightforward questions and answers, thats pretty much their mission.


So it's okay to perpetuate inefficient or poor coding techniques, or in the case of SQL Server techniques that could provide erroneous or inconsistent results or won't scale well in the face of increased data and/or users. I'm sorry, but if I am asking how to do something like write a cursor and some one tells me there may be a better way without using cursors, please show me. If there is a better way to write something in C# than the way I have done it, again show me. Don't let me continue on down the road of mediocrity, help make me better and more efficient in the code I write.


I remember one question about "running totals" and it had as an answer a great rundown on the various solutions, and the consensus was that the cursor was probably best (I think it was for server 2008) for reasons that were in addition to pure speed of execution. Would you guys have liked that answer, probably not. Does that make it incorrect? No, because a cursor can be used to produce a running total.

Can SO prevent incorrect information. Probably not, and I'm going to suggest a few things here, #1, you probably need to check information you get from unverified sources, #2, Stack Exchange is so big they're not going to be able to verify all sources. Does this scale and result make SO useless? Does it make the web useless?

Now you can handle that divergence of goals, methods and opinions by evaluating some subjective factors in a contemplative fashion or you can hollar "poop." Its all good in my opinion, granted I don't have to come in here pointing and laughing, so I'll work on that
Post #1597739
Posted Wednesday, July 30, 2014 8:12 AM


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patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/30/2014)
Lynn Pettis (7/28/2014)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/28/2014)
Koen Verbeeck (7/28/2014)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/28/2014)
SQLRNNR (7/28/2014)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/28/2014)
Ed Wagner (7/28/2014)
SQLRNNR (7/27/2014)
Jeff Moden (7/26/2014)
SQLRNNR (7/26/2014)
But the BS around rep just sucks.


That might be where the word "Overflow" comes from.


So they named it stack overflow because it is really just Diarrhea?

The last time I checked out stack overflow, it was just that. Maybe it got better since then, but I don't use it for anything so I wouldn't know.


I like Stack Overflow, they've done a great job, I've lost count over the answers I've gotten there. I'm not saying they're perfect, but the amount of loathing they get from you guys is just not proportionate to any actual problems over there that I can see, so I'm wondering what the real deal is? Did they treat some of you in a manner that was determined to be below your expectations or something? Not fawn over the 5 digit SSC rep or something?


Glad you like SO.

I have seen roughly 50% of the answers to be wrong over there. You can't fix that unless you have asked a question. Why ask a question just to get rep? All that says is the rep is a game to play.

Rep is worthless. SSC points are worthless and I could really care less about that stuff because it doesn't translate to anything for anybody else.

But why take this to the personal attack level? I didn't see anybody attack you personally or directly. People reading the series of entries should be able to understand that it is good natured fun. If that is not obvious enough, then I apologize for the word assimilation.


Good grief, the ol "personal attack" meme again. Thats fine, have at it.


Well, if you don't like that meme, don't get personal. It's quite easy
Your posts could be read as we're all a bunch of old grumpy SSC fanatics (mostly true for most people here ) who like to take a dump on the new shiny kid on the block, SO.

Well thats true, you guys could take it personally. After all, it IS your posts being held up for examination. For every post I replied to, they were at one time posted by someone, and maybe nothing but cheerleading was expected in return, and I can understand that. I'm certainly grasping for motivations for these posts also, so theres that. "Attack"? Well, although I don't think its necessarily a valid characterization, I don't think the characterizations of SO were worthy of posting on here either, so theres that.
Personally I don't think any of "us" is jealous over SO. SSC is a totally different site - a forum - while SO is a Q&A site with same "gamification". Here at SSC discussions are encouraged, advice is given and people can be mentored. At SO, well euhm, not But SO is great for straightforward questions and answers, where not too much debate is necessary.

I think that SO wants to be great for straightforward questions and answers, thats pretty much their mission.


So it's okay to perpetuate inefficient or poor coding techniques, or in the case of SQL Server techniques that could provide erroneous or inconsistent results or won't scale well in the face of increased data and/or users. I'm sorry, but if I am asking how to do something like write a cursor and some one tells me there may be a better way without using cursors, please show me. If there is a better way to write something in C# than the way I have done it, again show me. Don't let me continue on down the road of mediocrity, help make me better and more efficient in the code I write.


I remember one question about "running totals" and it had as an answer a great rundown on the various solutions, and the consensus was that the cursor was probably best (I think it was for server 2008) for reasons that were in addition to pure speed of execution. Would you guys have liked that answer, probably not. Does that make it incorrect? No, because a cursor can be used to produce a running total.

Can SO prevent incorrect information. Probably not, and I'm going to suggest a few things here, #1, you probably need to check information you get from unverified sources, #2, Stack Exchange is so big they're not going to be able to verify all sources. Does this scale and result make SO useless? Does it make the web useless?

Now you can handle that divergence of goals, methods and opinions by evaluating some subjective factors in a contemplative fashion or you can hollar "poop." Its all good in my opinion, granted I don't have to come in here pointing and laughing, so I'll work on that


First, for running totals I may have also pointed them to the Quirky Update method (Jeff Moden as a wonderful article on it and the discussion following it adds more information) as it (when done following ALL the rules) will blow the doors off a cursor.

Second, it comes down to using the right tool for the job and learning what those tools are and how to use them. If all you do is just answer the question then you aren't helping the person to learn about other tools and to be able to determine when each tool is appropriate.



Lynn Pettis

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Post #1597746
Posted Wednesday, July 30, 2014 8:25 AM


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Lynn Pettis (7/30/2014)

Second, it comes down to using the right tool for the job and learning what those tools are and how to use them. If all you do is just answer the question then you aren't helping the person to learn about other tools and to be able to determine when each tool is appropriate.


And that is the fundamental difference between the two sites. Here we try to teach so people become better. That is our culture on this site and what we try to achieve. SO is a different place. The culture there is to provide an answer quickly even if the approach is not the best. I think the point system at SO somewhat drives that but that is just the way it is.

Honestly I don't one is right and one is wrong. It is just a different approach.


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Post #1597756
Posted Wednesday, July 30, 2014 8:32 AM


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Sean Lange (7/30/2014)
Lynn Pettis (7/30/2014)

Second, it comes down to using the right tool for the job and learning what those tools are and how to use them. If all you do is just answer the question then you aren't helping the person to learn about other tools and to be able to determine when each tool is appropriate.


And that is the fundamental difference between the two sites. Here we try to teach so people become better. That is our culture on this site and what we try to achieve. SO is a different place. The culture there is to provide an answer quickly even if the approach is not the best. I think the point system at SO somewhat drives that but that is just the way it is.

Honestly I don't one is right and one is wrong. It is just a different approach.


Yup, different systems. And a fair enough argument has been made in support of SO.

I don't think that will change anything for me. I don't feel like asking some sort of fluff question just so I can get rep in order to start posting answers. And I don't think I will post a question there that says "Please upvote just so I can get rep." Both approaches would be a disservice.




Jason AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
I have given a name to my pain...
MCM SQL Server, MVP


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Post #1597764
Posted Wednesday, July 30, 2014 8:41 AM
Old Hand

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Lynn Pettis (7/30/2014)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/30/2014)
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patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/28/2014)
Koen Verbeeck (7/28/2014)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/28/2014)
SQLRNNR (7/28/2014)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/28/2014)
Ed Wagner (7/28/2014)
SQLRNNR (7/27/2014)
Jeff Moden (7/26/2014)
SQLRNNR (7/26/2014)
But the BS around rep just sucks.


That might be where the word "Overflow" comes from.


So they named it stack overflow because it is really just Diarrhea?

The last time I checked out stack overflow, it was just that. Maybe it got better since then, but I don't use it for anything so I wouldn't know.


I like Stack Overflow, they've done a great job, I've lost count over the answers I've gotten there. I'm not saying they're perfect, but the amount of loathing they get from you guys is just not proportionate to any actual problems over there that I can see, so I'm wondering what the real deal is? Did they treat some of you in a manner that was determined to be below your expectations or something? Not fawn over the 5 digit SSC rep or something?


Glad you like SO.

I have seen roughly 50% of the answers to be wrong over there. You can't fix that unless you have asked a question. Why ask a question just to get rep? All that says is the rep is a game to play.

Rep is worthless. SSC points are worthless and I could really care less about that stuff because it doesn't translate to anything for anybody else.

But why take this to the personal attack level? I didn't see anybody attack you personally or directly. People reading the series of entries should be able to understand that it is good natured fun. If that is not obvious enough, then I apologize for the word assimilation.


Good grief, the ol "personal attack" meme again. Thats fine, have at it.


Well, if you don't like that meme, don't get personal. It's quite easy
Your posts could be read as we're all a bunch of old grumpy SSC fanatics (mostly true for most people here ) who like to take a dump on the new shiny kid on the block, SO.

Well thats true, you guys could take it personally. After all, it IS your posts being held up for examination. For every post I replied to, they were at one time posted by someone, and maybe nothing but cheerleading was expected in return, and I can understand that. I'm certainly grasping for motivations for these posts also, so theres that. "Attack"? Well, although I don't think its necessarily a valid characterization, I don't think the characterizations of SO were worthy of posting on here either, so theres that.
Personally I don't think any of "us" is jealous over SO. SSC is a totally different site - a forum - while SO is a Q&A site with same "gamification". Here at SSC discussions are encouraged, advice is given and people can be mentored. At SO, well euhm, not But SO is great for straightforward questions and answers, where not too much debate is necessary.

I think that SO wants to be great for straightforward questions and answers, thats pretty much their mission.


So it's okay to perpetuate inefficient or poor coding techniques, or in the case of SQL Server techniques that could provide erroneous or inconsistent results or won't scale well in the face of increased data and/or users. I'm sorry, but if I am asking how to do something like write a cursor and some one tells me there may be a better way without using cursors, please show me. If there is a better way to write something in C# than the way I have done it, again show me. Don't let me continue on down the road of mediocrity, help make me better and more efficient in the code I write.


I remember one question about "running totals" and it had as an answer a great rundown on the various solutions, and the consensus was that the cursor was probably best (I think it was for server 2008) for reasons that were in addition to pure speed of execution. Would you guys have liked that answer, probably not. Does that make it incorrect? No, because a cursor can be used to produce a running total.

Can SO prevent incorrect information. Probably not, and I'm going to suggest a few things here, #1, you probably need to check information you get from unverified sources, #2, Stack Exchange is so big they're not going to be able to verify all sources. Does this scale and result make SO useless? Does it make the web useless?

Now you can handle that divergence of goals, methods and opinions by evaluating some subjective factors in a contemplative fashion or you can hollar "poop." Its all good in my opinion, granted I don't have to come in here pointing and laughing, so I'll work on that


First, for running totals I may have also pointed them to the Quirky Update method (Jeff Moden as a wonderful article on it and the discussion following it adds more information) as it (when done following ALL the rules) will blow the doors off a cursor.

A similar method was actually included in that post (they called it "update in place" or something along those lines), and they talked about whether it was a supported method or not. I know whether something is "supported" (for varying degrees of that word) is probably a subjective conversation in itself, and of course now its probably a mood point with new windowing functions.

Second, it comes down to using the right tool for the job and learning what those tools are and how to use them. If all you do is just answer the question then you aren't helping the person to learn about other tools and to be able to determine when each tool is appropriate.

Its sort of a free market thing, if people decide that SO/SE isn't useful, it could go away. I'm hoping it sticks around because it is really useful in my opinion, its an awesome site with an incredible coverage of subject matter, I've gotten lots of information from their postings. But yes, if people want to hate on it, I need to let that happen too.
Post #1597775
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