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Are the posted questions getting worse? Expand / Collapse
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Posted Thursday, April 3, 2014 6:42 PM


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dwain.c (4/3/2014)
Many thanks to Steve for syndicating my blogs on SSC:

DwainCSQL

And my apologies for making you work so hard at it.


You are welcome and good stuff. Check it out, everyone







Follow me on Twitter: @way0utwest

Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
Post #1558333
Posted Thursday, April 3, 2014 7:06 PM


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Steve Jones - SSC Editor (4/3/2014)
dwain.c (4/3/2014)
Many thanks to Steve for syndicating my blogs on SSC:

DwainCSQL

And my apologies for making you work so hard at it.


You are welcome and good stuff. Check it out, everyone


Thanks Steve. I should set expectations though to the veterans following this thread that it's mostly pretty newbie stuff. But it will get more advanced as time passes.



My mantra: No loops! No CURSORs! No RBAR! Hoo-uh!

My thought question: Have you ever been told that your query runs too fast?

My advice:
INDEXing a poor-performing query is like putting sugar on cat food. Yeah, it probably tastes better but are you sure you want to eat it?
The path of least resistance can be a slippery slope. Take care that fixing your fixes of fixes doesn't snowball and end up costing you more than fixing the root cause would have in the first place.


Need to UNPIVOT? Why not CROSS APPLY VALUES instead?
Since random numbers are too important to be left to chance, let's generate some!
Learn to understand recursive CTEs by example.
Splitting strings based on patterns can be fast!
Post #1558335
Posted Thursday, April 3, 2014 7:38 PM


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Steve Jones - SSC Editor (4/3/2014)
Revenant (4/3/2014)
Sean Lange (4/3/2014)
Greg Edwards-268690 (4/3/2014)
it was clear they had no idea what they wanted or needed.
But finish it by Friday.


This is an everyday occurrence at my job.

That's OK as long as there is sufficient padding in the budget.


You can have it fast or cheap...

Not if you want it right.

You can have it fast, cheap, or right - pick only one of the three.

EDIT: fix quotes - I hate this site's "I'll quote the wrong message feature but not tell you" feature about as much as I hate the "you've expired so we've thrown your typing away" feature.


Tom
Post #1558336
Posted Thursday, April 3, 2014 7:43 PM


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TomThomson (4/3/2014)
Sean Lange (4/3/2014)
Greg Edwards-268690 (4/3/2014)
it was clear they had no idea what they wanted or needed.
But finish it by Friday.


This is an everyday occurrence at my job.

Not if you want it right.

You can have it fast, cheap, or right - pick only one of the three.


I thought that was 2 of 3? When did this change? I don't remember seeing the memo?



Lynn Pettis

For better assistance in answering your questions, click here
For tips to get better help with Performance Problems, click here
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For more about Tally Tables, click here
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Post #1558337
Posted Thursday, April 3, 2014 7:51 PM


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Lynn Pettis (4/3/2014)
TomThomson (4/3/2014)
Sean Lange (4/3/2014)
Greg Edwards-268690 (4/3/2014)
it was clear they had no idea what they wanted or needed.
But finish it by Friday.


This is an everyday occurrence at my job.

Not if you want it right.

You can have it fast, cheap, or right - pick only one of the three.


I thought that was 2 of 3? When did this change? I don't remember seeing the memo?


It could be 1 of 3, or 2 of 3, but rarely 3 of 3. Here's the memo:

How to Avoid Software Projects Failing



My mantra: No loops! No CURSORs! No RBAR! Hoo-uh!

My thought question: Have you ever been told that your query runs too fast?

My advice:
INDEXing a poor-performing query is like putting sugar on cat food. Yeah, it probably tastes better but are you sure you want to eat it?
The path of least resistance can be a slippery slope. Take care that fixing your fixes of fixes doesn't snowball and end up costing you more than fixing the root cause would have in the first place.


Need to UNPIVOT? Why not CROSS APPLY VALUES instead?
Since random numbers are too important to be left to chance, let's generate some!
Learn to understand recursive CTEs by example.
Splitting strings based on patterns can be fast!
Post #1558338
Posted Thursday, April 3, 2014 8:04 PM


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Lynn Pettis (4/3/2014)
TomThomson (4/3/2014)
You can have it fast, cheap, or right - pick only one of the three.


I thought that was 2 of 3? When did this change? I don't remember seeing the memo?

Well, there is an interesting paradox: if you pick "right" as the one of the three you insist on, you stand a chance of getting it fast and cheap, so you can sometimes get all three. But if you start from cheap it will go wrong, and take a long time to fix, which may ead to budget overruns so aiming for cheap won't deliver fast or right and is rather unlikely to deliver cheap, and if you start from "fast" and want 2 man years work done in 2 days and put hundreds of people on it with no time to plan the work or coordinate the many teams you are pretty well guaranteed an expensive and buggy result that isn't available until long after you wanted it. So the only one of the three you should pick is "right" and then you may get the other two as well, whereas if you pick either of the others you will probably get none of the three.

However, non-technical managers (and most technical managers too, in fact) don't understand this, so they have to be offered the choice - and allowing them to pick two of the three guarantees failure, so they should only be allowed to choose one so that there's at least some chance of success. I've even known an accountant pick "get it right" as his preferred option, so there's always some chance if you restrict them to one of the three.


Tom
Post #1558339
Posted Thursday, April 3, 2014 8:34 PM


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dwain.c (4/3/2014)
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (4/3/2014)
dwain.c (4/3/2014)
Many thanks to Steve for syndicating my blogs on SSC:

DwainCSQL

And my apologies for making you work so hard at it.


You are welcome and good stuff. Check it out, everyone


Thanks Steve. I should set expectations though to the veterans following this thread that it's mostly pretty newbie stuff. But it will get more advanced as time passes.


Unlike most newbie stuff, this is good solid material. You're doing a good great job - keep it up.


Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
If you can't explain to another person how the code that you're copying from the internet works, then DON'T USE IT on a production system! After all, you will be the one supporting it!
Links: For better assistance in answering your questions, How to ask a question, Performance Problems, Common date/time routines,
CROSS-TABS and PIVOT tables Part 1 & Part 2, Using APPLY Part 1 & Part 2, Splitting Delimited Strings
Post #1558341
Posted Thursday, April 3, 2014 8:37 PM


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WayneS (4/3/2014)
dwain.c (4/3/2014)
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (4/3/2014)
dwain.c (4/3/2014)
Many thanks to Steve for syndicating my blogs on SSC:

DwainCSQL

And my apologies for making you work so hard at it.


You are welcome and good stuff. Check it out, everyone


Thanks Steve. I should set expectations though to the veterans following this thread that it's mostly pretty newbie stuff. But it will get more advanced as time passes.


Unlike most newbie stuff, this is good solid material. You're doing a good great job - keep it up.


Thanks Wayne! That means a lot coming from you.

Wait until you see the one I've titled: "Stupid T-SQL Tricks - Part 1" (probably out in a week or so). Should be a hoot!



My mantra: No loops! No CURSORs! No RBAR! Hoo-uh!

My thought question: Have you ever been told that your query runs too fast?

My advice:
INDEXing a poor-performing query is like putting sugar on cat food. Yeah, it probably tastes better but are you sure you want to eat it?
The path of least resistance can be a slippery slope. Take care that fixing your fixes of fixes doesn't snowball and end up costing you more than fixing the root cause would have in the first place.


Need to UNPIVOT? Why not CROSS APPLY VALUES instead?
Since random numbers are too important to be left to chance, let's generate some!
Learn to understand recursive CTEs by example.
Splitting strings based on patterns can be fast!
Post #1558342
Posted Thursday, April 3, 2014 10:47 PM


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TomThomson (4/3/2014)
Lynn Pettis (4/3/2014)
TomThomson (4/3/2014)
You can have it fast, cheap, or right - pick only one of the three.

I thought that was 2 of 3? When did this change? I don't remember seeing the memo?

Well, there is an interesting paradox: if you pick "right" as the one of the three you insist on, you stand a chance of getting it fast and cheap, so you can sometimes get all three. But if you start from cheap it will go wrong, and take a long time to fix, which may ead to budget overruns so aiming for cheap won't deliver fast or right and is rather unlikely to deliver cheap, and if you start from "fast" and want 2 man years work done in 2 days and put hundreds of people on it with no time to plan the work or coordinate the many teams you are pretty well guaranteed an expensive and buggy result that isn't available until long after you wanted it. So the only one of the three you should pick is "right" and then you may get the other two as well, whereas if you pick either of the others you will probably get none of the three.

However, non-technical managers (and most technical managers too, in fact) don't understand this, so they have to be offered the choice - and allowing them to pick two of the three guarantees failure, so they should only be allowed to choose one so that there's at least some chance of success. I've even known an accountant pick "get it right" as his preferred option, so there's always some chance if you restrict them to one of the three.

I am printing this in size 36p font and putting it on the wall of my office.
Post #1558364
Posted Friday, April 4, 2014 5:37 AM
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TomThomson (4/3/2014)
Lynn Pettis (4/3/2014)
TomThomson (4/3/2014)
You can have it fast, cheap, or right - pick only one of the three.


I thought that was 2 of 3? When did this change? I don't remember seeing the memo?

Well, there is an interesting paradox: if you pick "right" as the one of the three you insist on, you stand a chance of getting it fast and cheap, so you can sometimes get all three. But if you start from cheap it will go wrong, and take a long time to fix, which may ead to budget overruns so aiming for cheap won't deliver fast or right and is rather unlikely to deliver cheap, and if you start from "fast" and want 2 man years work done in 2 days and put hundreds of people on it with no time to plan the work or coordinate the many teams you are pretty well guaranteed an expensive and buggy result that isn't available until long after you wanted it. So the only one of the three you should pick is "right" and then you may get the other two as well, whereas if you pick either of the others you will probably get none of the three.

However, non-technical managers (and most technical managers too, in fact) don't understand this, so they have to be offered the choice - and allowing them to pick two of the three guarantees failure, so they should only be allowed to choose one so that there's at least some chance of success. I've even known an accountant pick "get it right" as his preferred option, so there's always some chance if you restrict them to one of the three.

You know, I think it's both interesting and sad that no matter where we are in the world, no matter what industry we work in, no matter who we work with, the problems we all face are so similar. The original video was a humorous look at things, but what makes it so funny is that it's all too real and has probably happened to all of us more that a few times. We get that strange "you can't be serious" look in our face and then we realize that they are. Of course, should have been done yesterday, cost the stakeholder absolutely nothing and work faster than blazes - nearly instantaneous.

Aside from the impossibility factor, people feel the need to take so much time talking about it and when it's all said and done, we're still left wondering if there was a straight answer in there anywhere. No matter what our specialty, the problems we deal with every day are so very common. The cool part is that we get things done.



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