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Are the posted questions getting worse? Expand / Collapse
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Posted Thursday, September 26, 2013 5:32 PM


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The Dixie Flatline (9/25/2013)
wolfkillj (9/25/2013)
What's the terminal velocity of a potato?


European or African?

Unladen or laden with butter, sour cream, bacon bits, etc.?


Dang... I thought you were talking about the two best brands of hamster poo again.


--Jeff Moden
"RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for "Row-By-Agonizing-Row".

First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
Stop thinking about what you want to do to a row... think, instead, of what you want to do to a column."

"Change is inevitable. Change for the better is not." -- 04 August 2013
(play on words) "Just because you CAN do something in T-SQL, doesn't mean you SHOULDN'T." --22 Aug 2013

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Post #1499117
Posted Thursday, September 26, 2013 6:08 PM


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The water cooler has done it again. Thanks Jeff et al for the laughs.



Jason AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
I have given a name to my pain...
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Post #1499122
Posted Thursday, September 26, 2013 7:34 PM


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SQLRNNR (9/26/2013)
The water cooler has done it again. Thanks Jeff et al for the laughs.


Heh... after the last couple of weeks at work, pork chop acceleration technology just seemed like the right thing to talk about. Thanks for the diversion.


--Jeff Moden
"RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for "Row-By-Agonizing-Row".

First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
Stop thinking about what you want to do to a row... think, instead, of what you want to do to a column."

"Change is inevitable. Change for the better is not." -- 04 August 2013
(play on words) "Just because you CAN do something in T-SQL, doesn't mean you SHOULDN'T." --22 Aug 2013

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to post performance problems
Post #1499138
Posted Friday, September 27, 2013 2:21 AM


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Jeff Moden (9/26/2013)
SQLRNNR (9/26/2013)
The water cooler has done it again. Thanks Jeff et al for the laughs.


Heh... after the last couple of weeks at work, pork chop acceleration technology just seemed like the right thing to talk about. Thanks for the diversion.


I second that.. and third

I'm waiting for the launcher to backfire, then we can have a real good laugh



Far away is close at hand in the images of elsewhere.

Anon.

Post #1499252
Posted Friday, September 27, 2013 3:15 AM


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hisakimatama (9/26/2013)
SQLRNNR (9/26/2013)
hisakimatama (9/26/2013)
Aaaaaaargh... And now, I need to fume .

Working with the company's vendor software, and one of the reports is coming across super-slow, about 10 minutes to retrieve about 150 items. Caught the code with Profiler, and... It's got a DISTINCT on a list of fields that's about 30 items long. Pluck the DISTINCT out, and the code drops from 10 minutes to run to three seconds, with identical results in all test cases.

Sadly, the report query isn't being held in a proc in the database; it's being assembled in the ASP.net front-end, and run from there. As far as I know of, I can't reach in there and rip the offending bit out. Is there some way of handling this, or should I introduce my forehead to my desk a few times?


So, the report is also an ASP .Net page (doesn't reference an SSRS or Crystal type report)?


Either way, it's a perfect example of evidence to beat on the vendor about. Take the evidence to them and tell them to fix it.


Yep, the report's an ASP.Net page too; there's a SSRS report base in the software, but it's unused.

And poking the vendor about the issue... *Shudder*. This company's had issues with the software almost from day 1 for all kinds of reasons. Their search functions are SQL-injectable, and we've reported it multiple times, but their response has always been "it's not a high priority". After digging in their code, it's riddled with NOLOCK, and uses READ UNCOMMITTED SNAPSHOT when they can't NOLOCK it (and then they NOLOCK the joins, whee!). Asked them if I could work with them to rewrite the NOLOCKs out, since the business has seen the negative side effects pretty regularly, and their general response was "it's our software, we wrote it this way, and if you don't like it, fine!". Slightly more verbose, but that was about it.

The unfortunate part of this is that we work in conjunction with several other agencies, and the software choice was basically passed down to us, so we don't really have a way out of it. I've been hired to get around some of it, like writing SSRS reports to replace their inefficient ones, but this particular case uses some logic that I can't quite crack. Maybe with a day or two of analyzing the structure, but it's a lot of joins between non-descriptive columns using criteria that don't have much tacit meaning.

Err... *Ahem*. Ok, ranting over . Back to trying to get some method to work here! I might fume over it, but if I apply enough elbow grease, it should work eventually!


If you've seen the effects of NOLOCK in the wild, you might want to swing by Jason Strate's blog and point that out. There's a guy there who thinks it's a laboratory problem, not a real world one.


----------------------------------------------------
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Author of: SQL Server 2012 Query Performance Tuning
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Post #1499270
Posted Friday, September 27, 2013 7:20 AM


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David Burrows (9/27/2013)
Jeff Moden (9/26/2013)
SQLRNNR (9/26/2013)
The water cooler has done it again. Thanks Jeff et al for the laughs.


Heh... after the last couple of weeks at work, pork chop acceleration technology just seemed like the right thing to talk about. Thanks for the diversion.


I second that.. and third

I'm waiting for the launcher to backfire, then we can have a real good laugh


I'd rather see it go into promiscuous mode.
I wouldn't want to see Jeff have a workplace injury.
For the backfire, it would seem far more fitting on a return volley.
Post #1499372
Posted Friday, September 27, 2013 7:38 AM


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jasona.work (9/20/2013)
It strikes me as somewhat amusing to see someone post a question, which is obviously not a "help me fix this" but is instead a "help me understand why this," and people immediately start trying to fix the problem.

Didn't happen here, but over on the TechNet SQL forums. Person asked if someone could explain why Agent jobs still work when SA owns them but is disabled, but fail when a different account (belonging to the SysAdmin role) owns them and is disabled.

Pointed him to a posting on SQLBlog which relatively clearly explained the reasons...


Any chance you can post the link so I can read it? I haven't had that issue yet, but I'd like to read up on it.


Brandie Tarvin, MCITP Database Administrator

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On LinkedIn!, Google+, and Twitter.

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Latchkeys: Nevermore, Latchkeys: The Bootleg War, and Latchkeys: Roscoes in the Night are now available on Nook and Kindle.
Post #1499380
Posted Friday, September 27, 2013 7:40 AM


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Grant Fritchey (9/27/2013)
hisakimatama (9/26/2013)
SQLRNNR (9/26/2013)
hisakimatama (9/26/2013)
Aaaaaaargh... And now, I need to fume .

Working with the company's vendor software, and one of the reports is coming across super-slow, about 10 minutes to retrieve about 150 items. Caught the code with Profiler, and... It's got a DISTINCT on a list of fields that's about 30 items long. Pluck the DISTINCT out, and the code drops from 10 minutes to run to three seconds, with identical results in all test cases.

Sadly, the report query isn't being held in a proc in the database; it's being assembled in the ASP.net front-end, and run from there. As far as I know of, I can't reach in there and rip the offending bit out. Is there some way of handling this, or should I introduce my forehead to my desk a few times?


So, the report is also an ASP .Net page (doesn't reference an SSRS or Crystal type report)?


Either way, it's a perfect example of evidence to beat on the vendor about. Take the evidence to them and tell them to fix it.


Yep, the report's an ASP.Net page too; there's a SSRS report base in the software, but it's unused.

And poking the vendor about the issue... *Shudder*. This company's had issues with the software almost from day 1 for all kinds of reasons. Their search functions are SQL-injectable, and we've reported it multiple times, but their response has always been "it's not a high priority". After digging in their code, it's riddled with NOLOCK, and uses READ UNCOMMITTED SNAPSHOT when they can't NOLOCK it (and then they NOLOCK the joins, whee!). Asked them if I could work with them to rewrite the NOLOCKs out, since the business has seen the negative side effects pretty regularly, and their general response was "it's our software, we wrote it this way, and if you don't like it, fine!". Slightly more verbose, but that was about it.

The unfortunate part of this is that we work in conjunction with several other agencies, and the software choice was basically passed down to us, so we don't really have a way out of it. I've been hired to get around some of it, like writing SSRS reports to replace their inefficient ones, but this particular case uses some logic that I can't quite crack. Maybe with a day or two of analyzing the structure, but it's a lot of joins between non-descriptive columns using criteria that don't have much tacit meaning.

Err... *Ahem*. Ok, ranting over . Back to trying to get some method to work here! I might fume over it, but if I apply enough elbow grease, it should work eventually!


If you've seen the effects of NOLOCK in the wild, you might want to swing by Jason Strate's blog and point that out. There's a guy there who thinks it's a laboratory problem, not a real world one.


I have written a number of times here on SSC about a real world situation that cost some serious damage to a major health care provider where I was doing some consulting work. I will see if I can find where I wrote that up and post it over there too.

The basic gist of it is that the "uber DBA" decided to mandate using NOLOCK on every single query in the entire system. They spent a couple months with close to a dozen people adding that hint everywhere. Then because this is very high volume OLTP system that disburses funds for a debit card you can imagine the challenges of trying to explain to business why we were seeing so many instances of denying payment when there were funds or approving payment when there were not enough funds.


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Post #1499382
Posted Friday, September 27, 2013 8:04 AM


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Jan Van der Eecken (9/20/2013)
wolfkillj (9/20/2013)
... The filibuster ...


I don't think I'm the lone non-US citizen who doesn't quite understand what the Filibuster is all about. The way I understand it is that some Representative keeps on talking (without sitting down) about one or other topic that's up for a vote in the House in order to make sure that the bill in question isn't put up for a vote within a certain allotted time. Am I right?


Jan,

If you want to see a decent example of a filibuster while being vaguely entertained, check out the old 30s or 40s movie called Mr. Smith Goes to Washington. Jimmy Stewart played the title character of Mr. Smith and this is how most U.S. citizens got introduced to the notion.

There's also a fantastic West Wing episode where one senator's granddaughter is autistic and so he's filibustering a budget or health care bill. I can't remember what that episode is called, though.


Brandie Tarvin, MCITP Database Administrator

Webpage: http://www.BrandieTarvin.net
LiveJournal Blog: http://brandietarvin.livejournal.com/
On LinkedIn!, Google+, and Twitter.

Freelance Writer: Shadowrun
Latchkeys: Nevermore, Latchkeys: The Bootleg War, and Latchkeys: Roscoes in the Night are now available on Nook and Kindle.
Post #1499397
Posted Friday, September 27, 2013 8:06 AM


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Lynn Pettis (9/21/2013)
I learned more when I became more involved on SSC and started trying to help others. Several key people showed me better ways and I learned from them. My suggestion, don't just lurk. Try to solve some of the problems posted even if you don't post a solution. You can still compare whet you develop to what others may post.


That was me. I learn more by doing than by reading. Being corrected and offering my view on things taught me a lot.


Brandie Tarvin, MCITP Database Administrator

Webpage: http://www.BrandieTarvin.net
LiveJournal Blog: http://brandietarvin.livejournal.com/
On LinkedIn!, Google+, and Twitter.

Freelance Writer: Shadowrun
Latchkeys: Nevermore, Latchkeys: The Bootleg War, and Latchkeys: Roscoes in the Night are now available on Nook and Kindle.
Post #1499399
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