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Are the posted questions getting worse? Expand / Collapse
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Posted Friday, September 20, 2013 9:36 PM


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enriquezreyjoseph (9/20/2013)
Hi Michael


You have a point there, a lot of people does not exert any little effort before posting the questions...

But for me, that how the technology works, it has its side effect, it really depend on a person whether to use technology wisely

And of coarse, the very objective why this site(social site) was created is to help those who are in need no matter how stupid or intelligent the question is..

We should answer them wholeheartedly...

cheers!!..God Speed


The stupid question is one that is not asked.
Sometimes what seems complex is trivial given a different perspective.
One of the things I have seen - if you want to learn, and are willing to put forth some effort, there are many here that will help you.
I know that I am glad I stumbled upon this site several years ago, its helped me learn a lot.
And I have a pretty high degree of trust that if I search for something, if a poor way of doing something is suggested, someone will point out a beter way.

Thanks to all those who contribute!
Post #1497100
Posted Friday, September 20, 2013 9:49 PM


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Greg Edwards-268690 (9/20/2013)
Jeff Moden (9/20/2013)
Are you good folks saying that any form of SELECT/INTO is bad? If so, why?


I sense a frozen pork chop being readied for launch!


Heh... stuffed, rolled, and taking a strain on the bands.

To be quite serious though, I've seen people still suffering from the carry over of pre-sp1 associated problems (used to lock up Temp DB for the duration) with Version 6.5, which were repaired by a pre-sp1 hotfix and incorporated into the product at 6.5 sp1. There continue to be some "problems" that can take the uninitiated quite by surprise but some have taken to recommending not ever using it and even calling it a "worst practice" (especially the incredibly useful SELECT * version). It's very good at the things that Tom suggested it's good at and can be a key element in high performance "Divide'n'Conquer" methods if the Temp Table doesn't need an index.

As a bit of a side bar, most (there are always exceptions) Temp Tables shouldn't need an index because, hopefully, you've only captured the rows that will be used to solve whatever the problem is and a full table scan can actually be more efficient in many of those cases as demonstrated in, IIRC, the first "Hierarchies on Steroids" article I wrote (it was a real table, in that case).

Getting back on the subject, I just wanted to make sure that people hadn't taken up the general mantra of condemning the use of SELECT/INTO and if they had, I wanted to find out why.


--Jeff Moden
"RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for "Row-By-Agonizing-Row".

First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
Stop thinking about what you want to do to a row... think, instead, of what you want to do to a column."

(play on words) "Just because you CAN do something in T-SQL, doesn't mean you SHOULDN'T." --22 Aug 2013

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to post performance problems
Post #1497101
Posted Friday, September 20, 2013 10:06 PM


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CapnHector (9/20/2013)
Jeff Moden (9/20/2013)
hisakimatama (9/20/2013)
*Huff* *Wheeze* I... I did it! I managed to read the entirety of The Thread! That was... Interesting . Been lurking around here, being generally amazed at the questions posted and everyone's unwavering insistence on being helpful despite the odds. The community here is great indeed.

I may chime in here a bit here and there, if you all won't mind, and if the rollercoaster of subjects strikes my fancy. Hopefully I won't eat a high-velocity pork chop or two in the near future


Anyone that understands the impact (no pun intended) of high-velocity pork chops is certainly welcome to the proverbial water cooler. Welcome aboard!


I have been gone for a while but am now coming back in a time of crisis. One of my developers looks to have nuked a third party vendor application with some front end changes that are stored in the DB and i may have to fix it with a restore from last nights backup. Good news is i think i can fix it.

Jeff can i borrow your pork chop cannon?


Maybe. My recommendation would be to have the developer belt-loop you during the restoration and turn it into an informative and friendly mentor session. Of course, it should be done without compensation for the time spent during the restoration if it's a contractor or if it has to be done after hours because that's also one of the lessons to be learned here.


--Jeff Moden
"RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for "Row-By-Agonizing-Row".

First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
Stop thinking about what you want to do to a row... think, instead, of what you want to do to a column."

(play on words) "Just because you CAN do something in T-SQL, doesn't mean you SHOULDN'T." --22 Aug 2013

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to post performance problems
Post #1497104
Posted Saturday, September 21, 2013 12:42 AM
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Greg Edwards-268690 (9/20/2013)
enriquezreyjoseph (9/20/2013)
Hi Michael


You have a point there, a lot of people does not exert any little effort before posting the questions...

But for me, that how the technology works, it has its side effect, it really depend on a person whether to use technology wisely

And of coarse, the very objective why this site(social site) was created is to help those who are in need no matter how stupid or intelligent the question is..

We should answer them wholeheartedly...

cheers!!..God Speed


The stupid question is one that is not asked.
Sometimes what seems complex is trivial given a different perspective.
One of the things I have seen - if you want to learn, and are willing to put forth some effort, there are many here that will help you.

I know that I am glad I stumbled upon this site several years ago, its helped me learn a lot.
And I have a pretty high degree of trust that if I search for something, if a poor way of doing something is suggested, someone will point out a beter way.

Thanks to all those who contribute!



Hi Greg..

very well said...yeah you are extremely right ..

cheers my friend ;)
Post #1497115
Posted Saturday, September 21, 2013 3:05 AM


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hisakimatama (9/20/2013)
*Huff* *Wheeze* I... I did it! I managed to read the entirety of The Thread! That was... Interesting . Been lurking around here, being generally amazed at the questions posted and everyone's unwavering insistence on being helpful despite the odds. The community here is great indeed.

I may chime in here a bit here and there, if you all won't mind, and if the rollercoaster of subjects strikes my fancy. Hopefully I won't eat a high-velocity pork chop or two in the near future


Congratulations! How long did it take you to read the entire thread?

Welcome to the Water Cooler!



Lynn Pettis

For better assistance in answering your questions, click here
For tips to get better help with Performance Problems, click here
For Running Totals and its variations, click here or when working with partitioned tables
For more about Tally Tables, click here
For more about Cross Tabs and Pivots, click here and here
Managing Transaction Logs

SQL Musings from the Desert Fountain Valley SQL (My Mirror Blog)
Post #1497126
Posted Saturday, September 21, 2013 6:03 AM
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Thanks for the welcome, everyone! It's great to be able to finally chat in The Thread with some context, not that it was needed. I just tend to have the quirk of wanting to know what I'm getting into. After the first dozen pages, though, I realized I might be in way over my head .

Lynn, it took me... Hm. Probably almost a year to read the whole thread, though I was only reading it during downtime at work. Most of that downtime was at my last job, so my reading pace slowed a lot recently. This thread's been to some amusing places, though, and reading the solutions to some problems, while painful, was definitely enlightening.




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Post #1497135
Posted Saturday, September 21, 2013 7:22 AM


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Well, by reading The Thread from start to now you also got to learn some interesting things about many of the regulars here on SSC. Hopefully you also learned why we refer to this as The Water Cooler.

It is a good place to socialize, blow off a little steam, and get others to help (on other threads) when you are stumped with your own problem or on others.

You may also come to call some of us friends at some point, I know I do. I know more about some people here than I do about some of the people I work with on a daily basis.

Again, welcome.



Lynn Pettis

For better assistance in answering your questions, click here
For tips to get better help with Performance Problems, click here
For Running Totals and its variations, click here or when working with partitioned tables
For more about Tally Tables, click here
For more about Cross Tabs and Pivots, click here and here
Managing Transaction Logs

SQL Musings from the Desert Fountain Valley SQL (My Mirror Blog)
Post #1497139
Posted Saturday, September 21, 2013 7:27 AM


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Jeff Moden (9/20/2013)
wolfkillj (9/20/2013)
The filibustering member stops speaking during debate on the point of order but has to follow all the other rules, including remaining standing.


Sounds like some of the scrums I've had to attend.


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In order for us to help you as efficiently as possible, please read this before posting (courtesy of Jeff Moden)
Post #1497140
Posted Saturday, September 21, 2013 11:12 AM
Mr or Mrs. 500

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Lynn Pettis (9/21/2013)
Well, by reading The Thread from start to now you also got to learn some interesting things about many of the regulars here on SSC. Hopefully you also learned why we refer to this as The Water Cooler.

It is a good place to socialize, blow off a little steam, and get others to help (on other threads) when you are stumped with your own problem or on others.

You may also come to call some of us friends at some point, I know I do. I know more about some people here than I do about some of the people I work with on a daily basis.

Again, welcome.


Thanks, Lynn . I'll probably lurk around and toss in some commentary here and there while I browse the site when work's slow. And if I end up becoming friends with some of the regulars here, I'd be quite honored! Seeing the work you all do is great, and I've learned a ton just by observing. Maybe at some point I'll be able to attend a conference and pick up some in-person learning. And then I'll need to sleep for awhile so my brain doesn't turn into pudding from over-saturation




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Post #1497150
Posted Saturday, September 21, 2013 3:03 PM


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hisakimatama (9/21/2013)
Lynn Pettis (9/21/2013)
Well, by reading The Thread from start to now you also got to learn some interesting things about many of the regulars here on SSC. Hopefully you also learned why we refer to this as The Water Cooler.

It is a good place to socialize, blow off a little steam, and get others to help (on other threads) when you are stumped with your own problem or on others.

You may also come to call some of us friends at some point, I know I do. I know more about some people here than I do about some of the people I work with on a daily basis.

Again, welcome.


Thanks, Lynn . I'll probably lurk around and toss in some commentary here and there while I browse the site when work's slow. And if I end up becoming friends with some of the regulars here, I'd be quite honored! Seeing the work you all do is great, and I've learned a ton just by observing. Maybe at some point I'll be able to attend a conference and pick up some in-person learning. And then I'll need to sleep for awhile so my brain doesn't turn into pudding from over-saturation


I learned more when I became more involved on SSC and started trying to help others. Several key people showed me better ways and I learned from them. My suggestion, don't just lurk. Try to solve some of the problems posted even if you don't post a solution. You can still compare whet you develop to what others may post.




Lynn Pettis

For better assistance in answering your questions, click here
For tips to get better help with Performance Problems, click here
For Running Totals and its variations, click here or when working with partitioned tables
For more about Tally Tables, click here
For more about Cross Tabs and Pivots, click here and here
Managing Transaction Logs

SQL Musings from the Desert Fountain Valley SQL (My Mirror Blog)
Post #1497163
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