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Should He Stay or Should He Go? Expand / Collapse
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Posted Friday, August 16, 2013 12:11 PM


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Maybe Evelyn has moved on because SHE was promoted due to incompetence. I've had only one manager in the 30 years that I have been working full time that did timely and regular performance reviews. So many managers view them as an unnecessary evil. How can one manage employees properly without them?

That doesn't excuse Eric. He's still a problem. The way to fix it is to do an immediate review, and corrective action plan, one that puts him on notice that his current performance is not acceptable, but which gives tangible ways that he can improve that performance. Chances are that it will not be effective long-term. But, at least it's the beginning of the end if it comes to that.

His mediocrity is likely evident to his coworkers. Putting up with it is poor for morale, and a waste of company money. If he doesn't improve, remove him and replace him with someone with a better work ethic and interpersonal skills. It's easier to train technical skills, that personality traits.

When I worked at Intel in the 90's there was definitely a philosophy of hiring the processor, not the program. Good processors are capable of running many different programs, but programs can't be easily fixed to solve a different task. In other words, hire good people, even if they don't have the complete set of technical skills. If you hire just for the technical skill, you have limited flexibility, and have to deal with the Eric's of the world.


Please don't go. The drones need you. They look up to you.
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Post #1485339
Posted Friday, August 16, 2013 12:55 PM


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After reading the article, I chose the path of giving Eric another chance through the use of a performance plan. Mainly because it didn't sound like a formal review with a performance plan had been attempted. I have worked with some Erics who thought quite highly of themselves regardless of their actual delivery. Luckily I was not in a management position. However, as a coworker you still get rubbed the wrong way when you see someone getting away with a lot and not living up to their title (or salary!).

No matter how much of a jerk that sort of employee is being, they deserve the chance to change things. Having their faults and a plan in writing and signed by both parties puts everyone on the same page and clears up any potential HR issues should a firing occur. Plus, even semi-competent workers have business knowledge that cannot be replaced immediately by outside hires. So unless there is another person in the company who has the business knowledge and the technical knowledge to replace him, I think it is usually better to try and work with who you have first.
Post #1485348
Posted Friday, August 16, 2013 4:06 PM
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document. Put him on a PIP (performance improvement plan) and if he continues as is, get rid of him.
Post #1485401
Posted Friday, August 16, 2013 4:17 PM
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I hate to have to say it, but folks - this topic started almost 3 YEARS AGO !!! It's already had pretty much everything there's likely to be said about it, said about it, AND said again in slightly different words, probably several times over. Just today's posts all seem to say almost exactly the same thing, with just a slightly different set of words. Might I suggest some new topics be created instead? It's kind of a serious waste of time to get several new e-mails because you're signed up to get updates on a given topic, only to find out the thread is years old and the current comments pretty much repeat what's already been repeated several times over. Just trying to re-read the entire thread means 8 pages of posts to go through, and that's way too much time to spend on just one unless you are brand new to the thread. Just try to realize that posting what amounts to the umpteenth repeat of previously stated concepts, really doesn't do anything for anyone, and uses up disk space and bandwidth that might be better used for other topics. End of rant...


Steve
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Post #1485409
Posted Saturday, August 17, 2013 7:33 AM


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Looks like a fairly junior manager screwed up at recruitment and was too wet behind the ears to use performance review and if necessary performance improvement programme to fix the problem; and maybe incompetence started at the top, since despite not picking up and correcting this she ended up promoted to somewhere where she can maybe do some more damage.

Why don't managers understand that continuous informal performance appraisal and taking whatever action that appraisal suggests is needed is an essential part of their jobs? It's even more important in companies that have a formal 6-monthly or annual performance appraisal process than in those that don't, because the formal process is generally locked into a straightjacket of excess formality and resented by everyone except the HR gurus.

However, that doesn't answer the question; what to do with Eric. I would go for a formal performance review and if that review determines it is needed then a performance improvement program; that may lead to resolution in one of several ways: it may cause Eric to perform his current job in a manner that causes less dissatisfaction and resentment amongst colleagues and managers; it may discover that the problem lies not in Eric but in the way management and colleagues treat him, so that improved management solves the problem; it may lead to identifying job changes that would improve the situation; or it may lead to firing Eric because he is not performing to the standard required.

Now I'll go and read the remaining pages of the article.


Tom
Post #1485485
Posted Saturday, August 17, 2013 7:02 PM


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sgmunson (8/16/2013)
I hate to have to say it, but folks - this topic started almost 3 YEARS AGO !!! It's already had pretty much everything there's likely to be said about it, said about it, AND said again in slightly different words, probably several times over. Just today's posts all seem to say almost exactly the same thing, with just a slightly different set of words. Might I suggest some new topics be created instead? It's kind of a serious waste of time to get several new e-mails because you're signed up to get updates on a given topic, only to find out the thread is years old and the current comments pretty much repeat what's already been repeated several times over. Just trying to re-read the entire thread means 8 pages of posts to go through, and that's way too much time to spend on just one unless you are brand new to the thread. Just try to realize that posting what amounts to the umpteenth repeat of previously stated concepts, really doesn't do anything for anyone, and uses up disk space and bandwidth that might be better used for other topics. End of rant...


BWAAA-HAAA!!!! Fly in your cereal, Steve?


--Jeff Moden
"RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for "Row-By-Agonizing-Row".

First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
Stop thinking about what you want to do to a row... think, instead, of what you want to do to a column."

(play on words) "Just because you CAN do something in T-SQL, doesn't mean you SHOULDN'T." --22 Aug 2013

Helpful Links:
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Post #1485536
Posted Sunday, August 18, 2013 8:22 AM
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Fly in my cereal ? Nope... just a statement of fact. I got a whole bunch of e-mails indicating updates to this topic, and so far, not one person; except you and your fly in my cereal comment; has done anything BUT repeat stuff said a long time ago, with nothing more than the use of a slightly different set of words. If you're going to complain that someone is pointing that out, then tough noogies... deal with it. I don't need a fly in my cereal to point out the fact that no one seems to want to recognize that they're just re-hashing old material. I may be wrong, but haven't you made a similar point in the past (not necessarily in this thread) ?



Jeff Moden (8/17/2013)
sgmunson (8/16/2013)
I hate to have to say it, but folks - this topic started almost 3 YEARS AGO !!! It's already had pretty much everything there's likely to be said about it, said about it, AND said again in slightly different words, probably several times over. Just today's posts all seem to say almost exactly the same thing, with just a slightly different set of words. Might I suggest some new topics be created instead? It's kind of a serious waste of time to get several new e-mails because you're signed up to get updates on a given topic, only to find out the thread is years old and the current comments pretty much repeat what's already been repeated several times over. Just trying to re-read the entire thread means 8 pages of posts to go through, and that's way too much time to spend on just one unless you are brand new to the thread. Just try to realize that posting what amounts to the umpteenth repeat of previously stated concepts, really doesn't do anything for anyone, and uses up disk space and bandwidth that might be better used for other topics. End of rant...


BWAAA-HAAA!!!! Fly in your cereal, Steve?


Steve
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Post #1485585
Posted Sunday, August 18, 2013 11:33 AM


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I guess it depends. I'm linked to probably 50 or 60 thousand posts where I get an email anytime someone responds to one of them no matter how old they are. It doesn't bother me because I have my email setup to sequester all email in one folder dedicated to receiving SSC email. Since each link in the emails takes me directly to the given post, I just sort by subject and descending date, pick the latest email on a given subject, and then scroll up once I've gotten to the post. It takes me about 5 seconds to see if I need to read more and only about 6 seconds to decide if I want to respond. It's just not a problem and duplicating answers is just proof that the problem still exists and that there may be a concensus on how to handle it. Deleting the posts by subject is easy to do en masse.

You're right. I have commented on the "problem" of people responding to old posts, in the past. My comment is normally directed to someone pointing out that the post is serveral years old and my comment is normally "So? It was a good subject then and it's a good subject now."

Threads like this one deal with a timeless subject. I certainly understand when someone responds to express an opinion about it even if it has been said a hundred times already, especially if they're having the same problem right now. It's human nature to respond in such a fashion otherwise sites like Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn would have never gotten off the ground. Although I don't always care for human nature, it only takes a couple of seconds to scan the titles and delete whole blocks of emails even if I take a quick peek at the latest post. That's a whole lot easier to do than to try to delete human nature.

The only reason why I responded to this one was because I saw a frustrated friend.


--Jeff Moden
"RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for "Row-By-Agonizing-Row".

First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
Stop thinking about what you want to do to a row... think, instead, of what you want to do to a column."

(play on words) "Just because you CAN do something in T-SQL, doesn't mean you SHOULDN'T." --22 Aug 2013

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to post performance problems
Post #1485605
Posted Sunday, August 18, 2013 4:19 PM


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sgmunson (8/18/2013)
Fly in my cereal ? Nope... just a statement of fact. I got a whole bunch of e-mails indicating updates to this topic, and so far, not one person; except you and your fly in my cereal comment; has done anything BUT repeat stuff said a long time ago, with nothing more than the use of a slightly different set of words. If you're going to complain that someone is pointing that out, then tough noogies... deal with it. I don't need a fly in my cereal to point out the fact that no one seems to want to recognize that they're just re-hashing old material. I may be wrong, but haven't you made a similar point in the past (not necessarily in this thread) ?

So you would rather make a somewhat pointless comment which wastes time for the rest of the world than take the trouble to unsubscribe from a topic in which you have no further interest? Presumably you haven't noticed that the editorial which started this topic 4 years and 11 months ago was republished 2 days ago in the daily SSC newsletter and is the SSC Editorial for 16 Aug 2013? Or think it unreasonable to republish this editorial, despite its addressing an issue which is as important today as it was five years ago? Perhaps you didn't realise that republishing it like that effectively solicits comment form those who 'didn't comment before, whether because they didn't see the editorial way back when of for some other reason?

There's an attitude which is too common in this world, which goes something like "If it inconveniences me because I can't be bothered to take the almost effortless action which makes it have no effect on me it then it shouldn't be allowed to happen no matter how much its happening may benefit other people"; I don't like that attitude; your posts here in the last two days seem to be displaying that attitude, but as Jeff referred you to you as "a frustrated friend" and I trust his judgement I guess that those posts are giving the wrong impression. Maybe you should try harder not to post stuff which will give us a misleading impression of your attitude?


Tom
Post #1485621
Posted Sunday, August 18, 2013 4:37 PM
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I think you've forgotten the purpose of tracking a discussion... to hear relevant points when they are made. I see no reason to have to go spend hours managing tracking subscriptions simply to eliminate hearing any more on a given topic, and I fail to see why I wouldn't want to hear something new on the topic. My only objection is to repeated, re-hashed, slightly differently worded treatises that clearly identify the manager as at least half the problem, if not more, and provide nearly identical reasons to dozens of prior posts that more than effectively communicate that concept. Rather than fingering me for being allegedly lazy, how about fingering the posters who seem to want to dredge up a dead thread by repeating what by now should be fairly obvious?


Steve
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