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The Private Cloud Expand / Collapse
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Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 12:43 AM


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Comments posted to this topic are about the item The Private Cloud






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Post #951170
Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 2:11 AM
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Steve,

I couldn't agree more, but have a couple of questions...

1. When were you working with this DB2 system -- I'm not particularly versed in that flavor, but have worked with a couple of other [acquired] IBM systems in my time. Just curious -- I'm not that familiar with virtualization prior to about the last 5 years.

2. Regardless of the "Hot-Add" MS, already, in my opinion has this basic feature built into Win2008. We use their servers _almost_ exclusively, and we love them -- have tried others, but stuck with MS virtualization. You can create and shutdown/pause servers easily. For some more $$ you can move them off to another machine, but you can do the basics, as I understand what you're describing, with nothing more than a kick-a$$ machine.

We have two of those and migrate virtual servers between them over a virtual SAN with [pardon language] virtually no issues. Worst issues we've had are drive failures. Hardware on servers and OS have been so solid we've moved more servers to this model than we had originally planned. LOVE IT!

D.
Post #951212
Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 3:34 AM


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Private clouds require considerable upfront investment in both hardware and software, so they are not a good choice for small and medium sized companies operating currently under tight budgets in this economy IMHO. Also, that technology is changing so quickly that if you don't have the skilled IT resources onhand, as well as the financial resources to keep up with it you will find that your "cloud", that you have sunk a lot of money into, will become outdated very quickly as well .

"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ..."
Post #951243
Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 3:36 AM
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Interesting certainly. I've been looking into the "cloud" recently and I'm interested that there appear to be some very different architectural models emerging, but nobody seems to have mentioned it yet.

I've started to come into contact with NoSQL and the concept of "Eventual Consistency", the basic premise being that proper ACID databases just have too much overhead to cope with massively distributed applications like Amazon, Google and Facebook. Looking into it a lot of "Cloud" offerings appear to be using this kind of technology, which to my mind is useless to anyone trying to run any kind of live transactional system, but they keep this information buried.

The fundamental problem seems to be that when you're serving objects to thousands or millions of people you just can't afford the overhead of keeping track of each individual object and it's state, so the user will pick up whatever the system chooses to throw at them and the updates will be done in the background (and certainly in the case of Facebook the actual consistent view of the data may be thrown up many days later).

And that's about all I know on the subject, but I think as SQL professionals we should understand the differences between these massively scalable but not particularly reliable models which most of the major "cloud" app vendors seem to be throwing at us and "cloud" as described by Steve, if for no other reason than we can fight the bosses arguments when they try and outsource the whole IT department to the web.

Anyone know enough to write a good article about this stuff? I for one would find it very useful...
Post #951245
Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 3:53 AM
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Interesting certainly. I've been looking into the "cloud" recently and I'm interested that there appear to be some very different architectural models emerging, but nobody seems to have mentioned it yet.

I've started to come into contact with NoSQL

____________________________________________________________________________

Richard,

I agree we need more info in that space, but I think Steve's point is more directed toward the "private cloud" -- the one you have [near total] control over.

One of the IBM DB's I've got significant familiarity with is a "NoSQL" DB. It was interesting, but as a SQL guy, and a developer that prides himself in being a fairly decent [MS SQL / Oracle] / relational] DBA "on the side", I found even that DB (which is a commercial/high $$ per concurrent connection DB) to be far less reliable than any relational DB I've worked with.

This was/is, however, in the "private cloud" -- in the "public cloud" space, Google is certainly leaps and bounds ahead of most of us, and obviously Amazon is doing something right. I'm sure Microsoft is as well, and I hope to explore that soon, but my current projects limit me to something more in the "private" realm.

D.
Post #951256
Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 6:18 AM


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I've looked at cloud computing from both sides now, and still somehow, its the cloud's illusions I recall - no one really knows how to sell the "benefits" of cloud computing at all...

(My apologies to Judy Collins for hijacking her lyrics)...

Yes, techies are frothing at the mouth over cloud computing, but having attended two non-IT business seminars on it, few if any outside the techie-sphere are buying into it.

I have yet to see anyone who can remotely sell the "benefits" against the potential huge cost, major overhaul, and maintenance of this old, rehashed, renamed idea.

As one "C" level professional stated at one of these conferences (to a Microsoft marketing pro)... "...and what will you guys come up with next? Take a 5 & 1/4 floppy disk, give it a new name like "magic data saucer", and try to sell us that???"

Whether actually good, bad or just plain ugly, no one seems to be able to sell the cloud computing concept in the real world because it may very well be nothing more than a white elephant running around in repackaged skin.


There's no such thing as dumb questions, only poorly thought-out answers...
Post #951357
Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 7:27 AM
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Hrrmph. That'd be Joni Mitchell, though Judy Collins release the recording first.

Cloud is old news. The Russian mafia and zombie botnet owners have been using it for years. And SETI.
Post #951436
Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 8:08 AM
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“Cloud Computing”?

I guess someone came up with a new BS name for external hosting and/or timesharing.

Wake me when the next “next big thing” comes along.




Post #951460
Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 8:29 AM
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Hmmm... I seem to have witnessed quite a few transitions of marketing b/s from the mainframe to the thick client and outsourcing/insourcing and back again in my time. It seems to come and go in tandem with times when the market wants to thin out middle management.

And nobody has ever satisfactorily answered the question "how do I guarantee 100% uptime on my internet connection?"

Having said that our server virtualisation tech is great, I love it, but I still have a server sitting on a rack, and clients accessing it, not sure it's a cloud, although some of the clients are abroad....

Maybe I could paint the ceiling of my server room like the Sistine Chapel? That's pretty cloudy...
Post #951484
Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 8:55 AM
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ben.mcintyre (7/13/2010)
Hrrmph. That'd be Joni Mitchell, though Judy Collins release the recording first.

Cloud is old news. The Russian mafia and zombie botnet owners have been using it for years. And SETI.


Oh please, everyone knows that's a Leonard Nimoy song!


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