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Posted Thursday, June 28, 2007 8:34 AM
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I don't see anything wrong with reviews, as long as labeled as such.

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Post #377425
Posted Thursday, June 28, 2007 8:45 AM
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I am an avid user of Red-Gate products, but it is pretty sickening that the articles on what used to be the best SQL site are becoming advertorials. A waste of my time and a big hit on the creditablity of this venue.

 

Tim

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Post #377430
Posted Thursday, June 28, 2007 10:01 AM
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I need to agree with Tim. I think Red-Gate makes great products and I've found them helpful, however SqlServerCentral.com is under the control of Red-Gate so they have an inherent conflict of interest here.

I can't imagine Steve publishing a "review" that slams Red-Gate and due to the conflict of interest these "reviews" really become advertisements to sell product, regardless of who writes them.

Perhaps we could have full disclosure as to the relationship between the author of the column(s) and Red-Gate and also if the author is compensated, in anyway, by Red-Gate ?

My $0.02.

Thanks,
Don
Post #377472
Posted Thursday, June 28, 2007 12:09 PM


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The article was commissioned by Red Gate and sent to me, same as any other article, though I'm honestly not sure if me, being SSC, is paying for it or Red Gate is. The author doesn't work for Red Gate AFAIK, but I could be wrong.

I don't want to make excuses here, but I'm still not sure how much this is a "Red Gate" overwhelming of the site. I still run the site as I choose and I wasn't pressured to run this article. Nor the survey earlier this week. I've run similar things for other companies. The SQLCentric review and the OfficeWriter review earlier this year were sent to me by those companies.

I thought this was a good way to show off products and I've sent it to a few other companies, asking them to do something similar. I think 3rd party tools are an important part of the community. And for the record, EVERY review we've ever run has been ok'd by the vendor, no matter who they are. We haven't necessarily thought it was fair for someone to slam a product unfairly, especially me or someone else. It's too easy for bad press to overwhelm good press and it's the same battle most publishers have problems with. We have in fact not put out a couple reviews in our 6 years at the request of the vendor. None of them were Red Gate and I'll decline to name names.

If you can point out specifically how Red Gate is driving the site, I'll look at what I'm doing. It's a fine line to walk and I definitely appreciate the feedback, positive or negative.







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Post #377509
Posted Thursday, June 28, 2007 12:43 PM
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I use the RedGate products and find that they do speed things up.

There is a layout file used SQL Refactor that can be edited to give you the layout you want when you ask the product to layout your code.

There are bits I don't like about SQL Prompt. Intellisense for functions link DATEDIFF would make life easier or the enum for the CONVERT function.

I think Steve is in a "Death or Bongo" situation. Short of publishing an article that criticises RedGate left, right and centre SSC is always going to be accused of bias if RedGate tools are reviewed.


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Post #377528
Posted Thursday, June 28, 2007 1:13 PM
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He is in a tough spot, but thats the life of an editor! He's luckier than most to now be insulated from the pressures of advertisers. That said, I agree with David, it's hard to win.

If it were me (and it's not!), I think just publishing some guidelines would help show and prove that all was fair, for example:

  • Reviews have to be labeled clearly as reviews, and require them to provide a balanced look. In other words, most products should have a negative or two. The alternative is to publish 'product intro's that just do gee whiz walk through. Both can have value, but its important that the community see what is being done.
  • Publish no review of a RG product unless a competiting product has already been reviewed. This is a bit unfair to RG, but errs on the side of caution and fairness.
  • Absolutely disclose if the author has a relationship with RG . For example, I'm still listed in their Friends of Program so I can get their software free and absolutely that can have a subtle biasing affect.

Those might not be perfect, but the idea is to write the rules and stick to them. I'd challenge anyone unhappy with what Steve does to look at it from his perspective as an editor and make suggestions that would help address the problem and serve the community while remembering that RG is bearing the cost of the site plus his salary. Steve's been my friend and business partner for a long time now and I promise you that he is trying to do the best he can to be fair to everyone.

 



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Post #377543
Posted Thursday, June 28, 2007 2:36 PM


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Pressing TAB replaces * with a comma delimited listing of all the column names. The second way to load columns the Column Picker - provides considerably more say in the selection process. By pressing the CTRL+LEFT keys instead of TAB the following window pops up.

I was going crazy today trying to figure out how to make this work.  I finally looked really closely at the picture and saw that I had to get rid of the "*" and bring up the selection dialog.

I really like red-gate products.  Version 3 of SQL Prompt is so much better than version 2 was (the version they bought) - I can't wait to see what version 3.5 has.  My biggest request is that when I re-size the dialog window that pops-up - it stays that size for all my query windows and remembers it for the next time.

Or better -give me an option to set that says - remember size.

 

Bill



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Post #377593
Posted Friday, June 29, 2007 5:06 PM
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Reality is sites like this have real people that need to make a living behind them.

Furthermore, as a professional, having someone outline such a product doesn't take away any time from my day if I were to read about a product I would buy or suggest my organization to buy to make life easier for developers. I can clearly scan an article like this in a minute or two and decide if I want to read the article.

And if your a regualar here, you know the relationship between this site and Red Gate.

Why the angst?

Thanks Steve. I'm going to check out this product if there is a demo and see if it does help me write code faster.
Post #377975
Posted Monday, July 2, 2007 12:09 AM


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A bit disappointed in the commercialism used in the article... while the tool is powerful, it does not teach how to write SQL fast... and writing SQL fast is normally diametrically opposed to writing fast SQL. :

--Jeff Moden
"RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for "Row-By-Agonizing-Row".

First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
Stop thinking about what you want to do to a row... think, instead, of what you want to do to a column."

(play on words) "Just because you CAN do something in T-SQL, doesn't mean you SHOULDN'T." --22 Aug 2013

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Post #378124
Posted Monday, July 2, 2007 2:02 AM
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Perhaps we are going about this the wrong way.

I should like to suggest that Red-Gate make a sample application available to SSC members with the precise intention of getting SSC members to review it en-masse.

This would give them valuable product feedback and potential market-leading ideas for future versions.

This would mean that SSC members would, in effect, be part of the development process so the product would be more collaborative.


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