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2007 Tech Salary Survey Results Expand / Collapse
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Posted Wednesday, March 21, 2007 11:03 AM


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Comments posted here are about the content posted at http://www.sqlservercentral.com/columnists/sjones/2935.asp






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Post #353019
Posted Tuesday, April 3, 2007 5:56 AM
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Steve,
please check the article. Looks like you left out something after "DBAs are listed as the" what?

Thanks



Greg H
Post #355574
Posted Tuesday, April 3, 2007 8:07 AM
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While I agree with most of the article, and look forward to reading the Salary Survey, I must say I was surprised to see the following in the article:

"That still stinks for women and it's ridiculous. Women can do the same job and I don't think the risk of a woman leaving is any worse than that of a man. "

This is a very typical knee jerk reaction. "Everyone is equal, so therefore they should receive equally". And in Utopia that will be wonderful. Back here in the real world, there are certain mitigating factors that need to be taken into account.

Before I'm flamed or bombarded with hate mail, let me say this - anyone doing my job as well as I do it, putting in the hours I put in, with a similar background, etc., should receive the same compensation that I receive for the job. This is regardless of race, gender, creed, and all of the other things that make us individuals.

HOWEVER, I will use my wife as an example. She's a speech language pathologist at a nursing and rehabilitative facility. She's very good at her job. She also teaches part time at a university. She has degrees and certificates out the wazoo. She's been published in her trade journals. With all of this, she could be making more money, but she'd have to leave the facility where she currently works, and she is unwilling to do so. Why? Because she has off every Wednesday where she currently is, has a boss who is understanding of her time constraints (read: doesn't complain when my wife is late to work), and is comfortable knowing that when she leaves to have children, she'll be able to come back on a per diem basis to provide coverage when it's convenient for her.

The Dice survey results don't mention the fact that while most women earn less for certain jobs, they also tend to take jobs that fit their lifestyles better. Men usually go for more money. Men are more willing to relocate for a better salary. Men don't take maternity leave. My boss knows that when she hired me, as long as the job kept me engaged and they kept me happy with my pay and benefits, that I'd be here for a long time. I'm not going to take off for 3 months on "family leave", requiring them to acquire/train a temp to fill in for me. I am, however, going to work nights, weekends, etc., whatever it takes to get the job done.

I've worked with women who outperform me, who don't take family leave, and who have therefore been duly compensated. I've also worked with women who have gone on multiple maternity leaves, and with women who have used up all of the maternity leave, and then told the company they weren't returning. The fact of the matter is that since there is less of a chance that I'll get pregnant, there is less of a chance of me leaving (either for months at a time, or altogether). Am I saying women should be penalized for this? No. What I'm saying is that women (like men) make choices, and those choices have consequences. So if they freely CHOOSE to take a job that only requires them to work 4 8-hour days a week or has better 'perks', or they CHOOSE to work closer to home rather than commute to where 'the money is', or they CHOOSE to have a family, the consequences are that they may not be paid as much as someone who makes a different choice. You may not like this fact, but that doesn't make it any less true.

Post #355616
Posted Tuesday, April 3, 2007 8:14 AM
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It is stink that woman still earn 10% less than man and I believe that is true.  What really makes me upset is salary should be based on skills not gender,  the male database developers in my company have less experience and skills than me and they earn more than me, how unfair ?  Most of the time, I even have to take over their work because they don't know how to do it !!!!

And you wonder why women exit IT !!!!!!

But in the salary survey I am surprise to see project manager's salary is higher than MIS manager.

Post #355618
Posted Tuesday, April 3, 2007 8:17 AM
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Frank

I work 50 hours a week and I don't have any special previlige over man, and I have more experiences and outperform them.  That makes me earn less !!!!!

Post #355620
Posted Tuesday, April 3, 2007 8:45 AM
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The discrepencies between compensation for men and women aren't limited to IT or any industry; such discrepencies are widespread.  According to the Census Bureau, women are paid, for the same job, approximately 75 cents for every dollar a man makes (it goes up or down slightly from year to year).  If you go to the Department of Labor website, you can find salary surveys by industry.  There you'll find that the pay disparity exists in nearly every industry.

Frank is horribly mistaken.  There's no reason, whatsoever, to pay different amounts to two people of different genders doing the exact same job with the same level of competence.  The fact that  one of the workers might get pregnant, might take maternity leave or might seek a flexibe schedule at some point in the future is not an excuse to pay that person less than the guy sitting next to her. 

Oh -- and by the way -- in addition to being morally wrong, it's also illegal. 

http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/employment-employer/employment-employer-discrimination/employment-employer-discrimination-equal-pay-facts.html

 

 

 

 

Post #355640
Posted Tuesday, April 3, 2007 9:06 AM


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Frank,

I agree that if someone doesn't do the same job at the same level, then there should be a reason for pay differences. Figuring out "sameness" is tough anyway and it's why people that do the same job, say developer, have different pay rates. They're not much different, but because of seniority, experience, etc., they're different.

However, most women don't do anything. I've talked to HR people about this and while on average woman take off more time than man for leave, in any company, the majority of women do not take maternity leave during any tenure. That's because there are relatively few times when women have babies during their career.

As pointed out above, women often get paid less and it's simple discrimination. Or perception that they might get pregnant. It doesn't sense and it's not knee jerk to point it out.

Same performance, same job, same experience = same pay.







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Post #355656
Posted Tuesday, April 3, 2007 10:38 AM
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I'd truly love to live in whatever world it is that you guys do. However, where I am, it's quite different.

 A 2001 survey of business owners with M.B.A.s conducted by the Rochester Institute of Technology found that money was the primary motivator for only 29% of women, versus 76% of men. Women prioritized flexibility, fulfillment, autonomy and safety. This shows the point I made earlier, that it's because of choices they make that they typically (not always) earn less. Men make decisions that result in their making more money. On the other hand, women make decisions that earn them better lives (e.g., more family and friend time).

What happens when women make the same lucrative decisions typically made by men? They actually earn more. For example, when a male and a female civil engineer both stay with their respective companies for ten years, travel and relocate equally and take the same career risks, the woman ends up making more. And among workers who have never been married and never had children, women earn 117% of what men do. (From an article on forbes.com.)

According to Catalyst, a nonprofit that advocates for gender equality in the business world, men are nine times more likely to be responsible for bottom-line sales, marketing and finances, not human resources or public relations. Or, to put it differently, they take jobs that require longer hours, produce more stress, and are come with greater responsibility. I don't know about you, but I've never seen my HR director working overnight or on weekends.

Do companies favor men for these greater responsibilities to begin with? Sometimes. Overall, though, track records being equal, whoever is more willing to relocate, travel and work 80-hour weeks receives greater responsibilities. The male corporate model is built on a man's greater willingness to be a slave of sorts--especially once he has to provide for children.

Chris - if companies only have to pay a woman 75 cents for the same exact work that they pay a man $1.00 to do, why do they hire men in the first place?

Post #355685
Posted Tuesday, April 3, 2007 12:10 PM
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Frank

There are more men than women in the work force.  In the recent study there was only 26% women in the IT industry.  Don't start with men work working long hour and have more stress at work.  A lot of women choose to stay home to raise kids and take care of the family, and you think it is easy.  It is so stressful, no pay raise, no sick leave, no pay leave, no holiday, no vacation, long hour and I am talking about 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

How about you stay home with 4 kids for one day and see if you can survive?

Also having a kid and work is not easy, you juggle ten things at the same time.  Wake up at 5 in the morning, get the kids ready to go to school or take the kids to go to daycare, then go to work.  Sometimes you need to time out to take the kids to see the dentist or the doctor. After work, you go home, prepare dinner, start the laundry, getting the kids ready to go to bed, then turn on the computer to finish the work that you haven't finished during the day.  Sometimes you even have to work weekend to make it up.  The beauty is no one appreciate what you do.

It is the culture that men get more pay, also it is because there are a lot of men liked you thinking women do not take working seriously !!!

Post #355711
Posted Tuesday, April 3, 2007 12:22 PM
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Frank,

I assume you're referring to the following article from which you copy and pasted much of your post:

http://www.forbes.com/work/compensation/2006/05/12/women-wage-gap-cx_wf_0512earningmore.html

The author of this article has succeeded in confusing you.  I don't believe anybody here has a problem with disparities of income due to differences in travel, position, responsibilities or actual time worked.  On these points, you're arguing with yourself.

However, you can find the following quote in your own article:

"What about the headlines saying that even when their jobs are the same, men get paid more than women? Isn't that especially true in corporate America? Yes."

Therein lies the problem.

 

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