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Posted Saturday, August 16, 2014 8:42 AM
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Gary Varga (8/16/2014)
I think that often the requirement for Computing, Maths or, possibly, Science degree is because it shows an aptitude to the type of work you will encounter and an acceptance that you will be working at a desk.


And maybe, just maybe, this is an outdated understanding. My last math training was two years of algebra in HS completed in 1961. But I finished my IT career with one of my main functions being to test, debug, and correct developer SQL code, including but not limited to financial and reporting functions.

I stick to my original position that intuitive thinking and visualization of data and relationships and anticipation of results is most critical. This to me is far more encompassing than math skills, which are only a small part. The math skills are far more likely just EVIDENCE of the underlying ability. Logic and intuitive understanding are so much more than math.
Post #1604100
Posted Saturday, August 16, 2014 9:29 AM


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skeleton567 (8/16/2014)
Gary Varga (8/16/2014)
I think that often the requirement for Computing, Maths or, possibly, Science degree is because it shows an aptitude to the type of work you will encounter and an acceptance that you will be working at a desk.


And maybe, just maybe, this is an outdated understanding. My last math training was two years of algebra in HS completed in 1961. But I finished my IT career with one of my main functions being to test, debug, and correct developer SQL code, including but not limited to financial and reporting functions.

I stick to my original position that intuitive thinking and visualization of data and relationships and anticipation of results is most critical. This to me is far more encompassing than math skills, which are only a small part. The math skills are far more likely just EVIDENCE of the underlying ability. Logic and intuitive understanding are so much more than math.


I totally get your point but for some roles in IT, development being one in my experience, the lack of an application of a scientific process to the activity of software development can lead to shoddy results without a clear understanding that they are let alone why.

Not all roles require this. Some do. And before anyone regales us with tales which are exceptions, the degree is only indicative i.e. some with a degree in the subjects mentioned will not be suitable whereas some without will be.


Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
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Posted Monday, August 18, 2014 1:33 AM
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K. Brian Kelley (8/15/2014)
I don't want my kids to go into IT.

While some work places are great, I see the following too often:

- Long hours are expected of IT workers with no reasonable compensation offered back.
- IT is often thought of as a cost center, not a profit center, and its people are treated worse than the business units.
- IT's expertise on technology is often cast aside because someone read a magazine article while folks wouldn't consider doing this to an accountant or an engineer.
- IT's long hours tend to be nights and weekends, which hamper family life.
- IT's needs, because it is often though of as a cost center, are put as secondary to business' needs. This is even the case when were talking infrastructure upgrades/projects that keep business running. Of course, when those needs aren't met and something from business fails, IT is blamed.

I know this isn't true of all environments. However, it's true enough that it's worrisome about how good a career field will this be in the next 5-10 years?


+1. The truth will ouch.


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Post #1604296
Posted Monday, August 18, 2014 11:23 AM


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If I could go back, I would have never choose this field of work. I would have continued to be a hobbyist, and found something else to do. I still love programming, but I wouldn't miss doing it for money. I also wouldn't recommend it to anyone I care about.
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Posted Monday, August 18, 2014 11:42 AM
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I think that CS should not be a standalone field of knowledge. Computing professionals, to be of value, must understand the use of their information.

CS knowledge is essential, but only useful if it's combined with other knowledge: accounting, finance, marketing, medicine, law, engineering, etc. Without a concrete tie in to the real world, CS is just an abstraction.


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Posted Monday, August 18, 2014 11:59 AM


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jay-h (8/18/2014)
I think that CS should not be a standalone field of knowledge. Computing professionals, to be of value, must understand the use of their information.

CS knowledge is essential, but only useful if it's combined with other knowledge: accounting, finance, marketing, medicine, law, engineering, etc. Without a concrete tie in to the real world, CS is just an abstraction.


Not sure how you would choose which to combine it with.


Gaz

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Post #1604618
Posted Monday, August 18, 2014 12:03 PM


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My sister is a hairdresser and she makes $200 an hour. I think programming/development is fun, but I do not making $200 an hour doing it. The assumption is that IT is a better job, but I don't see this job as offering a better life in any way if you aren't interested in the work being done.
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Posted Monday, August 18, 2014 12:08 PM
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Gary Varga (8/18/2014)
jay-h (8/18/2014)
I think that CS should not be a standalone field of knowledge. Computing professionals, to be of value, must understand the use of their information.

CS knowledge is essential, but only useful if it's combined with other knowledge: accounting, finance, marketing, medicine, law, engineering, etc. Without a concrete tie in to the real world, CS is just an abstraction.


Not sure how you would choose which to combine it with.


That would depend on your interest and inclination. The point being that someone doing work in IT is far more valuable with a good understanding of his user's requirements. Someone who knows the lingo and details of finance is of far more value in a bank than someone who simply knows databases or programming. My son started out with an EE, and this provided part of the basis for his moving into Google.

There is a real need for people who are not just computer geeks, but have a good understanding the problems they are needed to help solve.


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Posted Monday, August 18, 2014 12:13 PM
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jay-h (8/18/2014)
I think that CS should not be a standalone field of knowledge. Computing professionals, to be of value, must understand the use of their information.

CS knowledge is essential, but only useful if it's combined with other knowledge: accounting, finance, marketing, medicine, law, engineering, etc. Without a concrete tie in to the real world, CS is just an abstraction.


There need to be some who focus on the extreme side of things. These are needed on both the software and hardware side. They build compilers, databases, languages, chipsets, et cetera.

Others can be useful with mainly CS knowledge and the ability to pick up knowledge in areas they work in. For example, I have gained experience in Finance, Purchasing, Medical, Nuclear Engineering, Plumbing and Heating, Manufacturing, Distribution and Food Service. My degree is a BSCS, yet none of those areas were a challenge for me to come up to speed on. I would think most people in this group would feel similar.

Then there are the people who focus on other areas and have some IT duties. In HealthCare this is now called Informatics. But we should not confuse that role with a real CS role. Mainly they handle non technical issues with nursing and physicians, and perform basic IT roles like report writing that do not require any deep CS understanding.

Granted some people come into IT after pursuing other avenues, and a lot of them excel at what they do. I think that is somewhat uncommon though, and I feel we are ignoring the need for technical knowledge and focusing on simpler things, at the expense of quality.


Dave
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Posted Tuesday, August 26, 2014 11:54 AM


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David.Poole (8/18/2014)
K. Brian Kelley (8/15/2014)
I don't want my kids to go into IT.

While some work places are great, I see the following too often:

- Long hours are expected of IT workers with no reasonable compensation offered back.
- IT is often thought of as a cost center, not a profit center, and its people are treated worse than the business units.
- IT's expertise on technology is often cast aside because someone read a magazine article while folks wouldn't consider doing this to an accountant or an engineer.
- IT's long hours tend to be nights and weekends, which hamper family life.
- IT's needs, because it is often though of as a cost center, are put as secondary to business' needs. This is even the case when were talking infrastructure upgrades/projects that keep business running. Of course, when those needs aren't met and something from business fails, IT is blamed.

I know this isn't true of all environments. However, it's true enough that it's worrisome about how good a career field will this be in the next 5-10 years?


+1. The truth will ouch.


Certainly some truths here, but have you looked at other occupations as well? Plenty of others treat peoples' skills and worth the same. Salespeople discarded quickly when they don't perform. Doctors/nurses/lawyers/teachers, lots of hours with little extra compensation. Architects, similar.

Most jobs are hard in many ways. Overall, I think IT has been pretty good to me.







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