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Posted Wednesday, August 28, 2013 3:38 PM


SSChampion

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JLMayes (8/28/2013)
TravisDBA (8/28/2013)
Agreed, but let's make sure ALL the facts are uncovered first before calling anyone out. Otherwise, it just turns the whole situation into a witch hunt.


You know who else were women?

Witches.


Off-topic: technically, men could also be witches. In Salem at least one men was convicted as a witch and put to death by putting a very big heavy stone on him (the correct term escapes my mind for the moment).




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Post #1489436
Posted Wednesday, August 28, 2013 3:49 PM


SSCoach

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Koen Verbeeck (8/28/2013)
JLMayes (8/28/2013)
TravisDBA (8/28/2013)
Agreed, but let's make sure ALL the facts are uncovered first before calling anyone out. Otherwise, it just turns the whole situation into a witch hunt.


You know who else were women?

Witches.


Off-topic: technically, men could also be witches. In Salem at least one men was convicted as a witch and put to death by putting a very big heavy stone on him (the correct term escapes my mind for the moment).


Giles Cory. He was pressed to death. They used a door and a series of stones. Nasty. In Salem, the others were hanged. There were several men.

Reverend George Burroughs (hanged)
Giles Cory (pressed)
George Jacobs (hanged)
John Proctor (hanged)
Wilmot Reed (hanged)
Samuel Wardwell (hanged)
John Willard (hanged)

The rest were women. A few of the women were reprieved or escaped. A couple avoided sentence by getting (or claiming to be) pregnant. A couple died in jail. All the rest were hanged.

Poor, brave, Mr. Cory. He was singled out because he stood mute rather than plea guilty or not guilty. It took two days.


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Post #1489442
Posted Wednesday, August 28, 2013 3:50 PM
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To be honest I find this disgusting and have had first had accounts of this many times while working in a Tech Supply Company Support Department around the turn of the century. We had 3 very capable females.

If we had someone request a male technician specifically we would direct them to one of the females if they were available and if someone did not want to talk to a female after the initial service we would send them to a special extension which was in a bin at the back of the room with a phone wrapped in a towel.

We would all laugh when we heard the muffled ringer :).

When they rang back we would direct them back to a female. If they still had an issue they were directed to the manager which would explain that the only person with the right skills to help them at this time was a female and they could call back later if they wanted, if they opted to call back they went onto a register so the next time they called they would be directed to a female.

We seriously got 2 every week.

I worked there for 4 years and I know for some products they were actually the better technicians.
Post #1489443
Posted Wednesday, August 28, 2013 4:05 PM
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Bottom line: It is human nature to cluster. There is good and bad in all of these clusters. Some of these clusters breed excessive fictions, and it is incumbent upon us to build the right mental mining models to filter out the bad in these clusters. Use SQL Server Data Mining to build character (did I just REALLY SAY THAT?!?!).

Just remember, if it wasn't for the bad in these clusters, we would have no good examples to tell our children "how NOT to act".
Post #1489451
Posted Wednesday, August 28, 2013 4:10 PM
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Shawn Richards (8/28/2013)
To be honest I find this disgusting and have had first had accounts of this many times while working in a Tech Supply Company Support Department around the turn of the century. We had 3 very capable females.

If we had someone request a male technician specifically we would direct them to one of the females if they were available and if someone did not want to talk to a female after the initial service we would send them to a special extension which was in a bin at the back of the room with a phone wrapped in a towel.

We would all laugh when we heard the muffled ringer :).

When they rang back we would direct them back to a female. If they still had an issue they were directed to the manager which would explain that the only person with the right skills to help them at this time was a female and they could call back later if they wanted, if they opted to call back they went onto a register so the next time they called they would be directed to a female.

We seriously got 2 every week.

I worked there for 4 years and I know for some products they were actually the better technicians.


Yep the good old days when we everyone was so professional that we could afford to let customers go to the wastebasket. Many companies that had that mindset eventually went out of business. The more professional thing is to direct them to the person they wanted to work with. If the customer is paying, they get to dictate what their relationship with you will be. There are enough other companies out there that if you screw with a customer he not only can, but he will take his business elsewhere. But rest assured, you sure stood up for something. Don't forget to collect your unemployment check.
Post #1489453
Posted Wednesday, August 28, 2013 4:20 PM
Grasshopper

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I am not surprised that people hold such views. I am surprised that they want to share such views.
As a parent of two daughters who are capable young women I know from experience the valuable insight and technical understand that women bring to any field of endeavour.
Steve, I fully endorse you point of view.
Post #1489457
Posted Wednesday, August 28, 2013 4:28 PM
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jmoney 69422 (8/28/2013)
Shawn Richards (8/28/2013)
To be honest I find this disgusting and have had first had accounts of this many times while working in a Tech Supply Company Support Department around the turn of the century. We had 3 very capable females.

If we had someone request a male technician specifically we would direct them to one of the females if they were available and if someone did not want to talk to a female after the initial service we would send them to a special extension which was in a bin at the back of the room with a phone wrapped in a towel.

We would all laugh when we heard the muffled ringer :).

When they rang back we would direct them back to a female. If they still had an issue they were directed to the manager which would explain that the only person with the right skills to help them at this time was a female and they could call back later if they wanted, if they opted to call back they went onto a register so the next time they called they would be directed to a female.

We seriously got 2 every week.

I worked there for 4 years and I know for some products they were actually the better technicians.


Yep the good old days when we everyone was so professional that we could afford to let customers go to the wastebasket. Many companies that had that mindset eventually went out of business. The more professional thing is to direct them to the person they wanted to work with. If the customer is paying, they get to dictate what their relationship with you will be. There are enough other companies out there that if you screw with a customer he not only can, but he will take his business elsewhere. But rest assured, you sure stood up for something. Don't forget to collect your unemployment check.


I understand where you are coming from but it was inline with the companies non-discrimination policy and the same company grossed over $10 billion by the second quarter of 2013 so they must be doing something right.

The only way to stamp out discrimination is to make a stand if we let a little through for whatever reasons then we have opened the gates to a flood.
Post #1489459
Posted Wednesday, August 28, 2013 4:48 PM
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Grant Fritchey (8/28/2013)
Koen Verbeeck (8/28/2013)
JLMayes (8/28/2013)
TravisDBA (8/28/2013)
Agreed, but let's make sure ALL the facts are uncovered first before calling anyone out. Otherwise, it just turns the whole situation into a witch hunt.


You know who else were women?

Witches.


Off-topic: technically, men could also be witches. In Salem at least one men was convicted as a witch and put to death by putting a very big heavy stone on him (the correct term escapes my mind for the moment).


Giles Cory. He was pressed to death. They used a door and a series of stones. Nasty. In Salem, the others were hanged. There were several men.

Reverend George Burroughs (hanged)
Giles Cory (pressed)
George Jacobs (hanged)
John Proctor (hanged)
Wilmot Reed (hanged)
Samuel Wardwell (hanged)
John Willard (hanged)

The rest were women. A few of the women were reprieved or escaped. A couple avoided sentence by getting (or claiming to be) pregnant. A couple died in jail. All the rest were hanged.

Poor, brave, Mr. Cory. He was singled out because he stood mute rather than plea guilty or not guilty. It took two days.


Still...I bet a woman talked him into it.

BURN 'EM! BURN 'EM ALL!!
Post #1489463
Posted Wednesday, August 28, 2013 5:56 PM
SSCrazy

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I can only hang my head and wonder who are these idiots who pretend to be wise but are foolish beyond belief?

Someone needs to call that person into account right there in public. I remember days past when a teacher stood and professed something that was wrong and one brave person stood and said no that is not right. He called the speaker down right there before a crowd. If that is what it takes to stop this mess then let it be me who stands and says no more!

Dang!



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Post #1489481
Posted Wednesday, August 28, 2013 6:02 PM
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jmoney 69422 (8/28/2013)
But introducing the wrong female into an all-male team can have disastrous effects to the overall performance of the team, and introducing a second female can be even more destabilizing. In some cases, it is good to de-stabilize a team. In other cases, not so much.


But couldn't you equally write "introducing the wrong male into a team can have disastrous effects to the overall performance of the team"? I would argue - as presently the only female in a small, close-knit, and highly effective DBA team - that the risk comes from personality match and not from gender per se. And I would argue that introducing a new person of either gender into an existing team has the potential to destabilize the team.

When my company interviews a new prospective team member, we absolutely pay attention to whether that person is a good fit both with the dynamics of the team which s/he will be joining and with the values and culture of our company. But this is so whether the candidate is male or female, and whether the dominant gender in the team is male or female. (We have both kinds of teams here).

Tammy
Post #1489482
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