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Clouds Are In our Future Expand / Collapse
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Posted Sunday, January 2, 2011 9:21 PM
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Comments posted to this topic are about the item Clouds Are In our Future

Andy
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Post #1041695
Posted Sunday, January 2, 2011 11:18 PM
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I'm navigating the cloud issue at this very moment. My biggest concern is that the tools that are currently available fall short when one is faced with managing sql hosted in a cloud. Microsoft should overwhelm the community with information regarding the subject of sql hosted in clouds. Configurations that yield desired results in a dedicated cluster scenario should also have counterparts in the cloud space.

BTW...Sql Server Central Rocks!!!! I am a more informed .Net DEVELOPER as a direct result of my participation here. Every data-driven application I've ever worked on has benefited from informed decisions. Solid data stores and data access layers have left several challenges solved in my wake. Its a great feeling knowing that something will work and the only issue will be how much gold plating can I get on the application!



Post #1041723
Posted Monday, January 3, 2011 12:56 AM


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There is one additional major concern to bring up (and it has been done frequently already in other articles/threads): data security.

Currently, most companies have a strict regulation who has direct access to the data the company's dealing with. The people having direct access to the data (including domain admins) usually are known by name and (hopefully) trustworthy. There are firewalls to protect the data from unauthorized access from the "outside" and usually even within a company. And both for very good reasons.

In "the cloud" the data are some sort of "public". Not only you need to take of the securitiy issues at your cloud host. You also need to pay attention to the way you connect to the cloud.




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Post #1041736
Posted Monday, January 3, 2011 5:48 AM
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There are a myriad of problems including security. What about accountability? IMHO service bureaus and ASPs aren't as reliable as need be as the more common utilities like electricity and water. What happens when your cloud provider outsources? Or downsizes their technical staff to increase their bottom line at your service quality expense? How do you audit them?
Post #1041785
Posted Monday, January 3, 2011 6:36 AM


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Heh... we found out how to guarantee hard disk capacity being available for the next 5 years... all we had to do was cleanup the crap the old "DBAs" left behind. So far and in a very brief period, we've recovered nearly 15 Tera bytes (NOT a typo!) on the SAN and that was just for 4 rather small application servers. It only took us 20 minutes to find the first 4.6 Tera Bytes of wasted space.

Guess what such wasted space on the cloud would do to bill you receive?

I realize the cloud is available for other reasons but the primary goal is to make money with cloud services. There are a whole lot of people who will help them meet that goal when they really don't need to.


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Post #1041812
Posted Monday, January 3, 2011 6:43 AM


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If someone doesn't already have enough reasons to avoid the cloud, here is a recent post that may contain some additional reasons you may not have been aware of...
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1041653-392-1.aspx

Rumor also has it that you can't do a SELECT/INTO on a Temp Table in Azure. Does anyone happen to have a convenient list of all the things you can't do in Azure that you can do in a real instance of SQL Server?


--Jeff Moden
"RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for "Row-By-Agonizing-Row".

First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
Stop thinking about what you want to do to a row... think, instead, of what you want to do to a column."

(play on words) "Just because you CAN do something in T-SQL, doesn't mean you SHOULDN'T." --22 Aug 2013

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to post performance problems
Post #1041818
Posted Monday, January 3, 2011 8:23 AM
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Lutz, totally agree that security is a concern, especially if the physical implementation of the cloud is in a different country. Not arguing that it fits all cases, just that we should look at it in much the same way we consider Standard vs Enterprise Edition, or internal hosting vs a colo.

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Post #1041856
Posted Monday, January 3, 2011 8:27 AM
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Jeff, I think the corollary to your point is that if you get a bill for something each month, you're more likely to manage it! Plenty of ways to do dumb things regardless of where the data is hosted.

Absolutely the cloud is a paid service and designed to deliver a profit to whoever is hosting it. Just as in my earlier reply, if we just put this on the menu of options where each has pros and cons, there are times when the cloud will - eventually - make sense. I thinking having a cost associated is healthy for businesses over the long term, and each business can decide to stay local, go cloud, or some sort of hybrid.

Their bet on the cloud is that the economies of scale/automation leave sufficient margin to be interesting to both sides. If we can see some competition in that space then we might wind up with some very interesting pricing options.


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Post #1041859
Posted Monday, January 3, 2011 9:06 AM


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Jeff Moden (1/3/2011)
If someone doesn't already have enough reasons to avoid the cloud, here is a recent post that may contain some additional reasons you may not have been aware of...
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1041653-392-1.aspx

Rumor also has it that you can't do a SELECT/INTO on a Temp Table in Azure. Does anyone happen to have a convenient list of all the things you can't do in Azure that you can do in a real instance of SQL Server?


The cloud fits in places, but there are limitations right now. The SQL Azure team is enhancing it quickly, and I believe that all future tools, i.e. SSMS, will work seemlessly with Azure and non-cloud databases.

Here's a list of some limitations: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee336245.aspx







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Post #1041892
Posted Monday, January 3, 2011 9:53 AM


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Andy Warren (1/3/2011)
Lutz, totally agree that security is a concern, especially if the physical implementation of the cloud is in a different country. Not arguing that it fits all cases, just that we should look at it in much the same way we consider Standard vs Enterprise Edition, or internal hosting vs a colo.


It seems like we're in a perfect "it depends" situation. I'm not ignoring Azur. But all I'd store there would be at the same security level like the stuff I would post on twitter/facebook ( = only stuff I'd allow to be known in public). Not even my stamp collection would go there (What if I had a "Blue Mauritius"? For sure that wouldn't go public!) ...

As a brief review of the history of data security as I see it right now (using a picture from the middle age):

We started with timber castles (database with limited security options, hosted on servers with no real firewalls).
Now we have castles with moat (multi-layer security from a firewall down to row -level encryption).
And if it's trendy right now to build cloud castles, then let it be.




Lutz
A pessimist is an optimist with experience.

How to get fast answers to your question
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Post #1041928
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