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The Cloud is Just a Tool

  • February 22, 2017 at 9:21 pm

    #327563

    Comments posted to this topic are about the item The Cloud is Just a Tool

  • February 23, 2017 at 5:39 am

    #1929913

    Definitely 5 stars on this one, Steve.  Very well done!

    --Jeff Moden

    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

    Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    How to Post Performance Problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

  • February 23, 2017 at 6:32 am

    #1929926

    Dangerous tools are dangerous.

    The problem with the cloud is near-infinite attack surface. Sure, TDE will help--until someone gets hold of the encryption key. Every system as a weak spot, the (perhaps) single point of failure. Kill that, it's game over.

    When you have local databases you reduce expertise, true. But you also reduce attack surface drastically.

    Until they solve the security problem (and they never will) cloud is just a stupid risk, as many companies have found out to their extreme detriment (Sony, for instance). And yet we still beat the cloud drum with enthusiasm?

    Moving to the cloud is like moving to a warzone. *Bad* idea!

  • February 23, 2017 at 6:54 am

    #1929937

    roger.plowman - Thursday, February 23, 2017 6:32 AM

    Dangerous tools are dangerous.

    The problem with the cloud is near-infinite attack surface. Sure, TDE will help--until someone gets hold of the encryption key. Every system as a weak spot, the (perhaps) single point of failure. Kill that, it's game over.

    When you have local databases you reduce expertise, true. But you also reduce attack surface drastically.

    Until they solve the security problem (and they never will) cloud is just a stupid risk, as many companies have found out to their extreme detriment (Sony, for instance). And yet we still beat the cloud drum with enthusiasm?

    Moving to the cloud is like moving to a warzone. *Bad* idea!

    The reality is that every computer connected to a network is in the "warzone". Hackers can (and routinely do) breach desktop PCs nestled within corporate firewalls, the smart phone in your back pocket, your child's toy, and even the toilet we sit upon. Yes, hackers are even hacking toilets nowadays. The vast majority of high profile hacks are not cloud related but the result of on-premises networks poorly secured by individuals or untrained staff.

    "Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho

  • February 23, 2017 at 7:31 am

    #1929947

    Eric M Russell - Thursday, February 23, 2017 6:54 AM

    roger.plowman - Thursday, February 23, 2017 6:32 AM

    Dangerous tools are dangerous.

    The problem with the cloud is near-infinite attack surface. Sure, TDE will help--until someone gets hold of the encryption key. Every system as a weak spot, the (perhaps) single point of failure. Kill that, it's game over.

    When you have local databases you reduce expertise, true. But you also reduce attack surface drastically.

    Until they solve the security problem (and they never will) cloud is just a stupid risk, as many companies have found out to their extreme detriment (Sony, for instance). And yet we still beat the cloud drum with enthusiasm?

    Moving to the cloud is like moving to a warzone. *Bad* idea!

    The reality is that every computer connected to a network is in the "warzone". Hackers can (and routinely do) breach desktop PCs nestled within corporate firewalls, the smart phone in your back pocket, your child's toy, and even the toilet we sit upon. Yes, hackers are even hacking toilets nowadays. The vast majority of high profile hacks are not cloud related but the result of on-premises networks poorly secured by individuals or untrained staff.

    Man, I didn't know it but my toilet must be obsolete 😉
    I recently looked at Azure database as a service, but found the limitations too great.  We us a lot of SSIS packages, which aren't available.  I wonder how many companies with even moderately complex databases are able to use DaaS.  On the other hand, IaaS makes much more sense to me.  The only problem was I priced out a single virtual server and it cost as much for a 1 year subscription as it did to purchase our entire database server a year and a half ago.  At that price, it really doesn't make any sense.  I guess if you're willing to pay more to eliminate your on-premises hardware footprint, then it's for you.


    [font="Tahoma"]Personal blog relating fishing to database administration:[/font]
    [font="Comic Sans MS"]https://davegugg.wordpress.com[/url]/[/font]

  • February 23, 2017 at 7:35 am

    #1929949

    Heh... based on the comments so far, I feel redeemed in my very low opinion of the "cloud". 😉

    --Jeff Moden

    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

    Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    How to Post Performance Problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

  • February 23, 2017 at 7:46 am

    #1929951

    david.gugg - Thursday, February 23, 2017 7:31 AM

    Eric M Russell - Thursday, February 23, 2017 6:54 AM

    roger.plowman - Thursday, February 23, 2017 6:32 AM

    Dangerous tools are dangerous.

    The problem with the cloud is near-infinite attack surface. Sure, TDE will help--until someone gets hold of the encryption key. Every system as a weak spot, the (perhaps) single point of failure. Kill that, it's game over.

    When you have local databases you reduce expertise, true. But you also reduce attack surface drastically.

    Until they solve the security problem (and they never will) cloud is just a stupid risk, as many companies have found out to their extreme detriment (Sony, for instance). And yet we still beat the cloud drum with enthusiasm?

    Moving to the cloud is like moving to a warzone. *Bad* idea!

    The reality is that every computer connected to a network is in the "warzone". Hackers can (and routinely do) breach desktop PCs nestled within corporate firewalls, the smart phone in your back pocket, your child's toy, and even the toilet we sit upon. Yes, hackers are even hacking toilets nowadays. The vast majority of high profile hacks are not cloud related but the result of on-premises networks poorly secured by individuals or untrained staff.

    Man, I didn't know it but my toilet must be obsolete 😉
    I recently looked at Azure database as a service, but found the limitations too great.  We us a lot of SSIS packages, which aren't available.  I wonder how many companies with even moderately complex databases are able to use DaaS.  On the other hand, IaaS makes much more sense to me.  The only problem was I priced out a single virtual server and it cost as much for a 1 year subscription as it did to purchase our entire database server a year and a half ago.  At that price, it really doesn't make any sense.  I guess if you're willing to pay more to eliminate your on-premises hardware footprint, then it's for you.

    Our company is implementing new development in Azure, including a data warehouse project, and we will eventually go practically all cloud at some point. We have an Azure IaaS instance running SQL Server 2016 / SSIS / SQLAgent Job Scheduler dedicated for the purpose of data integration between Azure instances and to/from on-premises SQL Server. That works for now, but eventually there will be an SQL Azure version of SSIS. Managing an IaaS instance is virtually no different from managing an on-prem instance.

    "Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho

  • February 23, 2017 at 8:04 am

    #1929957

    Very interesting article. Even in state government, we're experimenting with using Azure. (Unfortunately I'm not involved. :crying: ) What I'm curious about is hybrid cloud solutions. I'm hearing that a lot. For those people with experience working with a hybrid, what's it like? Do you put some data in the cloud and leave the rest on-prem, that are all working with the same application? I'm envisioning it to be something like keeping ePHI data on-prem, because you feel like it would be better for regulation compliance. Then maybe putting pharmaceutical data into the cloud, where its more generic. Then whatever application you've got works against both data stores? Or is it the case that some data is in the cloud and the application(s) that work against it are entirely separate from other on-prem data with separate app(s)?

    Kindest Regards, Rod Connect with me on LinkedIn.

  • February 23, 2017 at 8:05 am

    #1929958

    Jeff Moden - Thursday, February 23, 2017 7:35 AM

    Heh... based on the comments so far, I feel redeemed in my very low opinion of the "cloud". 😉

    I don't know why anyone thinks "the cloud" is anything more than the current buzzword for on the internet.

  • February 23, 2017 at 8:36 am

    #1929963

    Jeff Moden - Thursday, February 23, 2017 7:35 AM

    Heh... based on the comments so far, I feel redeemed in my very low opinion of the "cloud". 😉

    At the moment it, with NoSQL, is creating a "fog"....

  • February 23, 2017 at 9:18 am

    #1929975

    For the right application the World Wide Web can be the right option. As professionals it is us who need to be able to enable that by allowing access to only the right amount of the appropriate data and providing update mechanisms for any necessary subset.

    Gaz

    -- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!

  • February 23, 2017 at 9:55 am

    #1929987

    Rod at work - Thursday, February 23, 2017 8:04 AM

    Very interesting article. Even in state government, we're experimenting with using Azure. (Unfortunately I'm not involved. :crying: ) What I'm curious about is hybrid cloud solutions. I'm hearing that a lot. For those people with experience working with a hybrid, what's it like? Do you put some data in the cloud and leave the rest on-prem, that are all working with the same application? I'm envisioning it to be something like keeping ePHI data on-prem, because you feel like it would be better for regulation compliance. Then maybe putting pharmaceutical data into the cloud, where its more generic. Then whatever application you've got works against both data stores? Or is it the case that some data is in the cloud and the application(s) that work against it are entirely separate from other on-prem data with separate app(s)?

    A hybrid cloud architecture could by any of the above or more. One thing you don't want to do is have a functional dependency between on-prem databases and cloud databases. Virtually, a cloud hosted instance looks and functions just like an on-prem instance, but practically you will encounter issues with bandwidth usage charges and latency if you're retrieving mass amounts of data back to on-prem applications. The application and the database should be co-located, or have a service oriented architecture for more granular data exchange, or perhaps keep highly used data replicated between the two environments.

    "Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho

  • February 23, 2017 at 10:45 am

    #1929999

    mjh 45389 - Thursday, February 23, 2017 8:36 AM

    Jeff Moden - Thursday, February 23, 2017 7:35 AM

    Heh... based on the comments so far, I feel redeemed in my very low opinion of the "cloud". 😉

    At the moment it, with NoSQL, is creating a "fog"....

    Heh.... sounds like a true weather problem.  I've always thought of the cloud as "smoke and mirrors". 😉

    --Jeff Moden

    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

    Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    How to Post Performance Problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

  • February 23, 2017 at 11:07 am

    #1930005

    The cloud is just somebody else's data center. The tools are essentially the same as what you've always been using on-premises.

    "Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho

  • February 23, 2017 at 11:26 am

    #1930013

    Eric M Russell - Thursday, February 23, 2017 11:07 AM

    The cloud is just somebody else's data center. The tools are essentially the same as what you've always been using on-premises.

    Not when it comes to the former differences between Azure and "regular" SQL Server.  Not when it comes to latency differences.  And certainly not when it comes to price and possible security differences... especially when you think of it as "just somebody else's data center".  At least not for me. 😉

    --Jeff Moden

    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

    Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    How to Post Performance Problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

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