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Posted Monday, October 04, 2010 9:15 PM
SSChampion

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Comments posted to this topic are about the item No, I do not provide childcare at my technology events...
Post #998048
juliekenny
Posted Tuesday, October 05, 2010 2:23 AM
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It's a bit harsh to say that if you're not supported at home then it's your own fault, however it's true that people of either gender have home issues that will affect their whole lives (including work). Unfortunately lack of self esteem occurs too often in women leading them to accept the situation more frequently.
Like you I am frequently the only women in a group - unless we have someone in to take minutes and people do remember your name - often good but not always. I don't use hormones as an excuse but I may take them into account when scheduling things in the same way as I know men who will take heavy social weekends into account - you know if you will be run down that day and plan accordingly. It doesn't mean you have to advertise the fact or make a song and dance about it.
We should act differently though because people are different, it's a big assumption to make that all men are or act the same and if women have tendancies to look at things in an alternate way then that's all good for the mix. This is not an excuse however for lazyness, I've experienced men who spend nearly all their working time discussing eBay and women who do the same with shoes and I regard both the same. Act professionally however you do it and in the right environment it will be noticed, in the wrong one get out.


Post #998142
Craigmeister
Posted Tuesday, October 05, 2010 7:03 AM
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I like this whole 'men and women in IT' discussion. It has certainly been entertaining. There are so many stereotypes and exceptions thrown around the forum this week, you have to duck to keep from getting whacked. It seems clear that there is no one way to look at it. People are different and deserve to be treated as individuals. For some of us, it is helpful at least initially to try and categorize people so we have some hope of relating to them, at least initially. Our challenge is to dive deeper to see who the person is and relate to what we find rather that to settle for the stereotype. Sometimes the stereotype is right-on. So. Still get to know the person and relate to what you find. "It depends" seems to be an appropriate answer, but demands more explaination, which will help uncover what makes us tick as we explain what we mean (thereby helping us relate to each other).

However, please lets agree to throw out the nature vs nurture debate. The whole thing is predicated on an old-fashioned notion of equality rather than fairness. Everyone with kids knows that both are important and influential and that kids are individuals. I
Post #998300
Eric M Russell
Posted Tuesday, October 05, 2010 7:04 AM
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I think that men and women bring to the table a set of distinct personality traits, some positive and some negative, at least in terms of their usefulness in IT. Which traits manifest themselves has as a lot to do with our personal decipline, education, and experience. However, I think that the office culture plays a big role in how it tolerates, encourages, or discourages such things. Whenever I hear stories about co-workers who grumble about their (or someone elses) hormones, or who get bent out of shape when the usual Friday morning doughnuts and coffee are not waiting for them on the break room table, it makes we think my own working environment is exceptionally professional, because I really don't see this kind of stuff going on around me. Then again, I'm typically so much in the zone, that if the cubicle next door caught fire, I wouldn't know it until the sprinkler system started raining down on top of my head.

"Wise people understand the 10,000 things without going to each one.
They know them without having to look at each one,
and they transform all without acting on each one." - The Tao Te Ching: Verse 47
Post #998301
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Posted Tuesday, October 05, 2010 7:27 AM
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Over my past 32 years in IT I have encountered one major difference in dealing with Women versus Men when it comes to technology.

Women seem to try harder then men. This exhibited itself in several ways:
1. Women were more likely to say "I don't know but I'll find out."
2. Women were more likely to actually carry through on the research and reporting back.
3. Women were much less likely to say "Yeah I know" and shut their brains off while your trying to explain things to them.
4. Women were much less likely to do things wrong 3 and 4 times in a row because they hadn't paid attention. (See 3 above.)

JMNSHO...
Post #998335
Steve Jones - SSC Editor
Posted Tuesday, October 05, 2010 7:37 AM


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I think that women and men are different. We ought to operate under the same rules, and be treated fairly, with equivalent opportunities, but we need to recognize they are different. That requires some understanding and tolerance from whoever is in charge of the group. You have to remember that the diversity and differences are strengths. They make the whole group function better.






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Post #998350
dld
Posted Tuesday, October 05, 2010 8:07 AM
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Steve Jones - SSC Editor (10/5/2010)
I think that women and men are different. We ought to operate under the same rules, and be treated fairly, with equivalent opportunities, but we need to recognize they are different. That requires some understanding and tolerance from whoever is in charge of the group. You have to remember that the diversity and differences are strengths. They make the whole group function better.


I agree entirely with Steve's comments. I have had very few opportunities in my three decades of IT to work with women (as in almost zero). I have, however, served on a number of non-profit boards with men and women, and I have come to appreciate the contributions of women very much. In my experience, the qualities of listening and reflection tend to be a more feminine trait, while the qualities of pressing one's point in a single-minded way tends to be more masculine. The groups I have been a part of that have worked well included a balance of these two, and it even happens on occasion that the masculine traits come from a woman and vice versa. Personally, I have made a conscious effort to cultivate these traits of listening and reflection to balance my own male tendencies. I would certainly welcome the opportunity to work with women in an IT environment.
Post #998373
mstumpp
Posted Tuesday, October 05, 2010 8:12 AM
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Good discussion. However, one sentence caused me to read and re-read and re-read: "I think this was the precipice to his asking..." I think the word she should have employed was "impetus" rather than "precipice". If Mr. Jones ever asked me to do something that let me to the edge of a cliff, well, I'd probably never visit this website again.
Post #998379
Eric M Russell
Posted Tuesday, October 05, 2010 8:20 AM
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mstumpp (10/5/2010)
Good discussion. However, one sentence caused me to read and re-read and re-read: "I think this was the precipice to his asking..." I think the word she should have employed was "impetus" rather than "precipice". If Mr. Jones ever asked me to do something that let me to the edge of a cliff, well, I'd probably never visit this website again.

You're always standing on the edge of a precipice whenever answering a question or making statments about gender, race, or politics. Keep your feet on solid ground and don't step to far ...

"Wise people understand the 10,000 things without going to each one.
They know them without having to look at each one,
and they transform all without acting on each one." - The Tao Te Ching: Verse 47
Post #998387
david_wendelken
Posted Tuesday, October 05, 2010 8:32 AM
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"It's a bit harsh to say that if you're not supported at home then it's your own fault, however it's true that people of either gender have home issues that will affect their whole lives (including work). Unfortunately lack of self esteem occurs too often in women leading them to accept the situation more frequently."

At least in my country, men and women get to choose whom they marry.
There is no legal support for an arranged marriage.

So, who someone marries, for better or for worse, is a personal choice. If someone makes a bad choice, for whatever reason, it's their problem, not ours. They need to take action to fix the problem or live with the consequences.

Lack of self-esteem is a choice. It is a self-crippling choice. It can be extremely hard to choose to be different. But it is a choice. The person who chooses it will have to pay the often severe penalties for that choice.

I did my best to raise my kids so they didn't get any boosters in that direction, but ultimately, it was still their choice, one way or the other, as to how they responded to my parenting.

So, no, I don't think it's a bit harsh to say that at all. It's just plain, unvarnished truth.
Post #998409
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