|
|
|
Forum Newbie
Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 8:24 AM
Points: 5,
Visits: 53
|
|
Imagine its fifty years in the future and your son or daughter is a school teacher talking to a class about this past decade or two in the auto industry...
A student asks; "So you guys had the gas crisis of the 1970's, and then just 10 years after that debacle you were building huge SUVs, burning 2 to 3 times the average amount of gas?"
"Yes..." your child answers.
Point of fact - today's full size SUVs and pickups get much better mileage than cars of the late 60/early 70s. My 1966 Mustang with a 289 V8 (small by the standards of the 60s) got 16mpg on the highway - with premium gas. My 2004 Dodge Durango HEMI SUV got 20 mpg on the highway - and weighted twice as much!
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Newbie
Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Friday, April 03, 2009 6:43 PM
Points: 6,
Visits: 23
|
|
 The Prius is good at 48mpg. But imagine an electric car powered by the sun from solar panels atop your roof. (And see the video "Who Killed the Electric Car?").
Reduce, reuse, recycle, and go green. Therein lies our future (if we survive the excesses of our past!).
|
|
|
|
|
SSCrazy Eights
Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Yesterday @ 2:45 PM
Points: 8,681,
Visits: 4,953
|
|
My wife and I own a 2006 Ford Taurus and a 1999 Mazda Protege. They are both good cars.
The Protege gets about 27 mpg city, close to 50 highway. The Taurus gets 18 city, 23 highway. On the other hand, the Taurus is a slightly bigger vehicle, and is considerably more comfortable to sit in for long drives. I have long legs, and the Protege causes muscle cramps if I have to sit in it for more than about half an hour, while the Taurus does not cause that effect. So, I pay a premium for the ability to get out of the car and walk without pain. (Yeah, yeah, I'm showing my age on that one.)
One of the main reasons American cars are "so big" is because it's more comfortable to sit in them that way. I personally don't like the really big cars, SUVs, large trucks, etc., because it feels like I've got all the maneuvarability of an aircraft carrier. My mother's big Buick, for example, takes FOREVER to come to a stop, just because it has so much mass. But so far as comfort goes, those big vehicles just can't be beat. But my Taurus is a good compromise. Not quite as comfortable as something bigger, but comfortable enough, and considerably more nimble than the bigger vehicles.
To a lot of people, that matters more than the cost of the fuel.
- GSquared
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Newbie
Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 8:24 AM
Points: 5,
Visits: 53
|
|
I agree electric is the way to go - I am on the list to get the upcoming Chevrolet Volt.
As to the movie, the director has already recanted much of that movie as bad/biased/incorrect information. If you really dig into the situation, you will see that California CARB had a lot to do with ending that program. At the cost of the extreme technology that went into the EV-1, the car could never have garnered more than a handful of buyers and was not viable for mass production. They could not be sold due to warranty/safety/liability concerns - all these driven by the government and blood-sucking liability lawyers, which is why they were destroyed. Once again, if you do the research, you will find that the Japanese automakers had electric vehicles in CA for that period of time also, once again mandated by CARB, and they killed off their programs immediately after CARB changed the rules just like GM did - but without all the negative publicity.
|
|
|
|
|
SSC-Addicted
Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Thursday, March 11, 2010 8:08 AM
Points: 408,
Visits: 532
|
|
S Hodkinson (3/31/2009)
[quote]Robert Hermsen (3/31/2009)
Same reason when you are standing at the Ice cream stand or in the line at a food cart some idiot will always drive past and rev his\her engine or break the tires loose to show their 'dominance.'
Perhaps it is just me but that sounds like a small attention-seeking child who requires a little instruction on how to conduct themselves.
yep... small attention-seeking 16-40+ year old. :)
|
|
|
|
|
Mr or Mrs. 500
Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:09 AM
Points: 513,
Visits: 975
|
|
| It isn't necessarily true that bigger cars are more comfortable for tall/large people to drive. It was reported by Daniel Pinkwater (a self-described large person) that after doing his own independent study (in a Wal-Mart parking lot observing other people of generous proportion) that the most comfortable car and easiest to get in and out of was . . . the new VW Bug.
|
|
|
|
|
SSChampion
Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 12:13 AM
Points: 11,923,
Visits: 12,026
|
|
|
|
|
|
SSC-Enthusiastic
Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 11:23 AM
Points: 118,
Visits: 122
|
|
No matter who's at fault, the mess still needs dealing with.
It's almost as if the government needs to mandate that the cars coming out of the US plants are quantifiably better than those from foreign markets, and provide incentives for consumers to buy them. Make it hard for foreign markets to compete, it would be a no-brainer for those who are looking to get the best deal for the money.
Some countries are offering significant tax credits to consumers who trade in their 10+ year old car for a newer model. The auto industry, the environment, the economy, AND the consumer wins. Who knows if the US will do this as well..
|
|
|
|
|
SSChampion
Group: Administrators
Last Login: Yesterday @ 8:26 PM
Points: 23,166,
Visits: 6,925
|
|
Yes, we've been frivolous in the US, yes we've wasted efforts. However I'm not sure that we all have just wanted SUVs. If you look back, there have been trends, times when certain types of cars have been very popular. Some of that is changing attitudes, some of marketing and everyone wanting to be like every one else. The tax changes at the beginning of this century encouraged Hummers and large SUVs. I'm not sure that was a good move.
You can see how passionate some people are about their cars from this thread, and I think that's great. I don't always agree with you, but I like the passion. Cars are a big part of US society, more than other countries it seems. We like them big and powerful.
The Prius get 45-50mpg, not 30. That's a big difference. Trading in old cars for newer ones makes some sense, but I'm not sure if that will work.
The Big 3 have made mistakes. They've relied, as have other manufacturers, on large, high profit cars, and an expanding market. In a capital intensive industry, with large lead times, that's a mistake. Toyota has done a better job of preparing itself for different markets. They've enhanced their Tundra, but they've also worked hard to make the Yaris, Matrix, Camry, and Venza. They've innovated with the FJ. I never liked Toyota much, but I have liked what they've done here. Ford has done a lot as well, working through a wide variety of new models, styles, and price points (escape, flex, fusion, focus). Dodge a little, but I see them pushing their larger models rather than the smaller ones. For every Matrix advertisement, I see 0 Caliber/Avenger ones. GM has done a great job of repackaging their SUV platform across all models.
It's not their cars though, all have done some work here. It's their business model. They haven't looked forward, and tried to build smaller cars that break new ground like the FJ, the Element, the CRV/Rav4. They've been lazy, stuck in the keep doing what has made profits and enriched management. Certainly haven't helped shareholders. They are too big, and not ready to move on to new ideas. They own Dialmer, Volvo, etc. They are still part of the issue. Toyota is working on being part of the problem as well. Too long they've relied on an emotional "sale" taking place when someone walks in the door, not proving a value that makes sense for the customer. Who doesn't have a bad car salesman story in the US?
I don't think that most people need to tow anything. I've had hundreds of friends with SUVs that have never towed anything. People with pristine cars full of junk they're carrying around that they don't want to clean out. I used to be that way, but it's a short sighted way of looking at things. I've love the space in a minivan, my wife mentioned that last week when we couldn't get the kids bike in the Prius. That's like 3x in the last year we've had a problem. That worth trading the Prius for a minivan/SUV? Don't think so.
Community cars might help. Lots of issues with this, liabilities, restrictions on what you can do, cleaning, etc., but it could help. Heck if I could easily rent an SUV for a day to go skiing, I'd do it. However now it's an hour out of my day because no matter how much information I plug into the Enterprise/Hertz/Dollar site, apparently they can't figure out how to get that to the agent.
We need a few new models of doing business, and I'm not sure that a huge company like GM/Toyota/Dialmer can do it. Toyota has shown more flexibility in the past, so I might bet on them, and Ford is really trying. It will be interesting, that's for sure.
|
|
|
|
|
SSC Veteran
Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 8:30 AM
Points: 288,
Visits: 1,026
|
|
One reason Americans drive bigger vehicles is the perception that they are safer, and will protect Mom and the soccer playing little ones better. I know a lot of folks who have said they bought a Suburban or Tahoe or Expedition because the extra size helps survivability in the average crash. I don't know if that's necessarily true, but it is a significant reason for buying large SUV's.
Another reason for the rise of the SUV is the CAFE law, which essentially killed the large station wagons (estate cars for the UK) we all used to have. The CAFE law did not apply to light trucks, but did apply to station wagons. Since building a station wagon that met the CAFE requirements was difficult, the auto makers started building SUV's, which the public loved. When I was a kid, the Moms had a station wagon, the Dads drove sedans. These days, Mom drives an SUV.
One reason you don't see ads for the Caliber/Avenger is they are utter crap cars, with no redeemiing features. I've driven a Caliber a few times as a rental, and there's no way I would ever own one. Poorly designed, uncomfortable, noisy, etc. Didn't the folks at Chrysler look at a Camry, or Corolla, or a Jetta?
One reason I turned aways from US made cars is that until recently, the electric window switches were a safety hazard for children. Japanese and European cars for years had switches that required an overt lifting motion to close a window. US makers continued using the rocker swithces that were easy to engae for up or down by a child inadvertently hitting them. We ad this as a topic at a safety meeting that discussed human factors and poor engineering.
|
|
|
|
