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The October 2008 Energy Update Expand / Collapse
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Posted Wednesday, October 29, 2008 4:31 PM


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Comments posted to this topic are about the item The October 2008 Energy Update






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Post #594001
Posted Thursday, October 30, 2008 12:09 AM
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The election in the US is next week and I'm not sure who to vote for.
Well, I find that a pretty scary statement, especially from someone who is as articulate and well-reasoned as you seem to be. God help us all if there are sufficient numbers of Americans who would express thoughts in a similar vein.



Post #594101
Posted Thursday, October 30, 2008 2:32 AM
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He's clearly going to vote Republican - he called the US a company :D
Post #594135
Posted Thursday, October 30, 2008 3:01 AM
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Oil companies forsake all alternatives, as they cut profits. Care for profits is above everything. I don't mean just alternatives for fuel (ethanol, hydrogen from plants) and energy (wind, solar, tidal), but also for materials like plastic, motor lubricants, etc.
There are several useful plants that grow well in harsh land without much water, if nothing else they suck CO2 from atmosphere and accumulate solar energy, which is a lot cleaner than solar panels. Solar panels look as clean energy, but it's not as a lot of energy is used for production and a lot of water polluted, which is one of reasons for their high price.
Post #594145
Posted Thursday, October 30, 2008 4:56 AM


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He's clearly going to vote Republican...


I know Steve well enough to vouch for him: If he says he's undecided, he's undecided. Although pundits and the partisan would disagree (on both sides), I completely understand people who are undecided, even now. It's that kind of race during these kind of times.

I agree with you on going green, Steve. For me it's not so much about the oil and environment; it's about security. I take nothing away from the environmental folks. The environment has become more of a concern since I learned I'm going to be a grandfather. That's an admission of shortsightedness and selfishness, but it is what it is.

I see an opportunity for a win-win. We can gain more security and help the environment by reducing our dependence on oil, foreign and domestic.

Like you Steve, I'm impressed by Mr. Pickens' plan. I like the concept of a technological bridge. I don't know if wind is the answer or not, but I think Pickens' plan has a practical and pragmatic "architecture".

I believe both US presidential candidates will make changes regarding US energy policy if elected. In my observation, both have adjusted their positions - even during the campaign - to include better and more practical plans. I admire them equally for so doing. I don't think anyone has the perfect plan as of 30 Oct 2008. The person leading the US had better be flexible and open to new and different ideas. They should also be willing to cross the ideological / philosophical boundaries of their party for better ideas. I see those traits in both candidates, so I'm optimistic we'll see some push similar to the moon shot of the 60's to accomplish this.

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Post #594190
Posted Thursday, October 30, 2008 5:49 AM
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Actually I think every country should do this, but especially the larger companies like the US and China


Maybe this is a sublte commentary on where the country is heading? Although the country has not been on track to post a profit lately, we have certainly done everything possible to make sure the largest profits possible were being garnered by some companies.
Post #594215
Posted Thursday, October 30, 2008 7:11 AM
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ok... so i had a real nice reply typed up... then it errored when i hit reply. Oh well... now you just get a semi bulleted rant.

Take small steps. Replace your roof with steel. If you put down foam sheeting on top of your existing sheeting and then the steel you gain R and you also will not have the roof noise that people complained about before. It is not like standing in a steel pole building. Replace appliances with more efficient ones as they need it. Plan for future green solutions (solar, geothermal, in floor heating, wind) as you remodel.

Plan for your childrens childrens children. There was once a rule of 7 generations used. All decisions were made on how they would impact people 7 generations into the future. Be selfish and have a good sense of self responsibility.

As a 27 year old i cannot afford to drop 10 grand that will have a 50 % return over 30 years when we have a functional solution now. But i can plan and budget to implement in the future. Those of you who are further along financially can still plan future but also start to implement to better the technology.

A huge issue is also need. Do you NEED that? Turn off things like servers, vcrs, printers, fans, etc. Take some time instead of just convenience. Use technology wisely. How often do you use the server in your basement? make it WOL.

Take some small steps. We cannot expect to turn this around individually but it takes all of us to do something big or small to move forward.

I am not a treehugging dirt worshipper. That is my wife. We have quite the discussions. She feels that no cost should be spared to go green. I see it as a progression as we have time, money and reason. I am far more utilitarian about it. There are just some common sense stuff we can do. And remember. A working semi efficient appliance is still more efficient than sending it to the scrapyard to buy a new more efficient appliance. You need to take disposal and manufacturing into account.
Post #594262
Posted Thursday, October 30, 2008 7:14 AM
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This is the type of thing that we ought to start requiring on more buildings.


This is a dangerous thing. Who is "we". If it's the government that's a bad idea. Government solves nothing. It may put a band aid on a problem, but they solve nothing. it is the ingenuity of the people and the push from consumers that should drive this sort of thing, not a government mandate. Let's face it, the people of the US (and probably other countries) are demanding more fuel efficiency, driven by the cost of gas, and the automakers are responding by designing more hybrids and seriously taking a look at electronic and fuel cell vehicles. That was driven by the market, not by the Government.



Post #594266
Posted Thursday, October 30, 2008 7:17 AM


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Like Steve, I'm not the biggest fan of Mr. Pickens, but I appreciate that he at least has a plan to get us started.

Energy is both a security and economic issue. As long as massive amounts of our resources are traveling outside of our borders, we're going in the wrong way financially. Not all of the money goes to our enemies (lots go to Canada, for example) but a lot of it goes to countries that are clearly set to destabilize both us and other free democrocies.

I appreciate that this is not a primarily political site, but since the topic is here, I don't think the democrats can put their hearts and souls into a truly varied effort in this matter. The best solution has to take into account all sources, including known ones like nuclear and oil. All of the people who don't want offshore drilling, all or the people who don't want fossil fuels in general (such as "clean" coal), and all of the anti-nuclear people are in the democratic party. Even if the presidential candidate of that party can be gotten to the point of "I'll consider the options" (at least that's what he says publicly) for these energy sources, his party won't let him get very far. And wind, solar, and biofuels just aren't going to fill the gap for decades. Whatever you think about social issues or economic structures, the democrats are bad news on energy and security. We won't get anywhere on solving other problems if we are unsafe and broke.


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Post #594268
Posted Thursday, October 30, 2008 7:20 AM


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Being undecided is good. At least I think so. Our legal system (should) function like that in court, I'm giving all candidates another week to do/say something that I can believe in. As an FYI, I'm leaning Libertarian more than anything.

No commentary on large companies, but on the state of the world. China, the US, we are large companies. We have the ability to sway how things work in the world. I'd like to see our governments trying to push things forward because companies do work for profits, often work too hard, and forget there's more than profit. I wish we had more consortiums, or maybe university research into basics and practical applications. Then licenses for those products to all companies, but perhaps preferential for those companies that participate and help fund research.

It can't be all commercial because they look for ideas/products that are profitable, not necessarily better for the environment/security.

T Boone is an oil/gas guy. Seeing him convert to wind is a nice idea. Not necessarily sure that he has the best solution, but he's betting his own money on making a difference. He could do anything, including going for more gas/oil work, but he's putting money into alternative, renewable energy production.







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