Click here to monitor SSC
SQLServerCentral is supported by Red Gate Software Ltd.
 
Log in  ::  Register  ::  Not logged in
 
 
 
        
Home       Members    Calendar    Who's On


Add to briefcase ««123»»

The Agile Cult Expand / Collapse
Author
Message
Posted Tuesday, September 23, 2008 7:53 AM
SSC-Enthusiastic

SSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-Enthusiastic

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Thursday, December 19, 2013 7:41 AM
Points: 118, Visits: 381
I think Agile definitely has some advantages in some environments, but it is not a one-size-fits-all solution to software development.

In any kind of a consulting/contract situation where the people doing the work are not actual employees of the firm receiving the work, it is necessary to have a clear understanding of what the deliverables are and when they are due. That's not to say that the incremental portions of getting that work done can't be done in a more Agile manner - but so often I hear people talk about "Agile" development as meaning "no set list of requirements, just build what we ask for when we ask for it, and be ready to change focus at the drop of a hat." That may be well and good when your developers are sitting down the hall from you and they are paid a salary regardless of what they do, but it doesn't work at all when a team of consultants is hired to do a particular project. It needs to be agreed upon what the scope of that project is for the negotiated fee, and substantive changes to that scope need to go through a process so that expectations and consequences (date slippage, increased development costs) are understood by both parties.

Working in-house though, I see much more advantage to Agile methodologies. You probably have different stakeholders and project priorities change with the business requirements, and it's important for the dev team to be responsive to that because it is the purpose of the dev team to help the business run smoothly, not just build cool stuff. That said, there is still no substitute for planning the big picture upfront and then implementing it incrementally in a more "agile" manner. If you don't plan your overall architecture upfront, you end up with a bunch of pieces jimmied together with no real cohesion. Spending time upfront on a flexible framework that supports modular application design will save you a bundle in time and money, prevent you from reinventing the wheel, simplify support etc.


--
Anye Mercy
"Service Unavailable is not an Error" -- John, ENOM support
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." -- Inigo Montoya in "Princess Bride"
"Civilization exists by geologic consent, subject to change without notice." -- Will Durant
Post #574353
Posted Tuesday, September 23, 2008 8:57 AM
Grasshopper

GrasshopperGrasshopperGrasshopperGrasshopperGrasshopperGrasshopperGrasshopperGrasshopper

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 3:42 PM
Points: 12, Visits: 170
Is there an alternative for the "blog post about Agile development" link? I can't seem to get anything to load from cio.com.

Thanks
Post #574475
Posted Tuesday, September 23, 2008 9:10 AM
Grasshopper

GrasshopperGrasshopperGrasshopperGrasshopperGrasshopperGrasshopperGrasshopperGrasshopper

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 5:00 PM
Points: 10, Visits: 40
I have worked for companies that use the Agile method and for ones that use the "waterfall" method. Agile seems to fit with the reality of the software development process better than other systems. The main advantage of Agile is the expectation of change and the methods for dealing with it. In systems that use a cast in stone pre-defined plan any changes (and I have never seen a project that didn't have changes) can cause problems because the design was inflexible.
Post #574505
Posted Tuesday, September 23, 2008 9:28 AM
SSCrazy

SSCrazySSCrazySSCrazySSCrazySSCrazySSCrazySSCrazySSCrazy

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Friday, November 21, 2014 10:15 AM
Points: 2,464, Visits: 1,551
I know Agile has advantages in our environment, but I agree that it is not a one-size-fits-all solution to software development.

Sprints and deliverables are nice to see early and it helps us meet the expectations of the users while they are still interested in the project. Using the older methods users and business experts use to loose focus in a shorter time the it took to see the first real deliverable. Agile gives them something sooner and keeps them more interested.

Huge difference for the better.

But for shops who are not ready to move fast, and would rather let the IT folks solve all the problems without interested business experts involved, Agile is not for them. They need to take a slower pace that will allow them to be further behind the curve and within the realm of safety. Always remember it is perfection and delivering the exact product to meet the stated need that works not being creative innovative or on time. :):):):P:):):)

(Just a little tongue-in-cheek here)

Miles...


Not all gray hairs are Dinosaurs!
Post #574533
Posted Tuesday, September 23, 2008 1:13 PM
SSC Eights!

SSC Eights!SSC Eights!SSC Eights!SSC Eights!SSC Eights!SSC Eights!SSC Eights!SSC Eights!

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Yesterday @ 8:20 AM
Points: 906, Visits: 2,007
I am intrigued by Agile and I can see its benefits because I have used Agile-like methodologies before when doing application development, I have always tried to keep end users in the loop. But like previous comments have said, it looks to me like it's more appropriate for application development, not database development. You need to be involved with the stakeholders when developing databases, and you may need to break out E/R diagrams occasionally to explain how you're implementing business rules, but as a rule I would never show t-sql code to a stakeholder, or anyone outside of IT.

One of these days I'll pick up that book on Agile DB development.


-----
Knowledge is of two kinds. We know a subject ourselves or we know where we can find information upon it. --Samuel Johnson
Post #574734
Posted Tuesday, September 23, 2008 9:45 PM


SSC-Dedicated

SSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-Dedicated

Group: Administrators
Last Login: Today @ 3:05 PM
Points: 31,284, Visits: 15,750
I think Agile works great in the DB, it's just different clients. Communicate often and regularly with the developers, who are your clients. Address their needs and change direction when needed.

And of course, knock them around when needed as well. A little "rugby DBA'ing" is a good thing.







Follow me on Twitter: @way0utwest

Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
Post #574878
Posted Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:42 AM
SSC Eights!

SSC Eights!SSC Eights!SSC Eights!SSC Eights!SSC Eights!SSC Eights!SSC Eights!SSC Eights!

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Thursday, October 30, 2014 5:30 AM
Points: 847, Visits: 477
I can't say I every looked into Agile but the posts here intrigue me. Yet another of those great reasons for participating here.

Interestingly enough, the last time I used Cobol was at Purdue doing a semester-long software project. It was the only thing we did in the class. The instructor had plenty of real-world development experience. He demonstrated that to us, by changing the project specifications at least weekly if not more often than that. Some were put off by that, but since my team had some real experience, we appreciated it. In the end, all of us were better prepared for real jobs and the experience has paid off nicely. So I may have gotten some Agile training before the concept was formally introduced to developers in general.


------------
Buy the ticket, take the ride. -- Hunter S. Thompson
Post #575080
Posted Tuesday, July 23, 2013 9:23 AM


SSC Veteran

SSC VeteranSSC VeteranSSC VeteranSSC VeteranSSC VeteranSSC VeteranSSC VeteranSSC Veteran

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Thursday, November 6, 2014 3:24 PM
Points: 224, Visits: 640
I've been developing software for about 35 years now, and have more or less been able to keep up with the times doing so.

The best software development practise, in my experience, is to plan thoroughly and execute the plan well. Understand the users' business. Understand their functional requirements. Write and review with them a detailed set of functional specifications. Elaborate the technical specs based upon the functional ones. Develop the software, carefully reviewing it with the users at each functional point. And so on.

Buzz-words like 'agile development' and 'extreme programming' come and go; our profession is no more immune to trend and fashion than any other. What works, and which stands the test of time, is what works in many other professions as well: a dedication to careful, detailed, conscientious craftsmanship.
Post #1476655
Posted Tuesday, July 23, 2013 9:48 AM
SSCrazy

SSCrazySSCrazySSCrazySSCrazySSCrazySSCrazySSCrazySSCrazy

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Friday, November 21, 2014 10:15 AM
Points: 2,464, Visits: 1,551
Craig-315134 (7/23/2013)
Buzz-words like 'agile development' and 'extreme programming' come and go; our profession is no more immune to trend and fashion than any other. What works, and which stands the test of time, is what works in many other professions as well: a dedication to careful, detailed, conscientious craftsmanship.


Object Oriented, Rapid Application Development, Cascade, Waterfall, DropDown Programming, Spaghetti, Altered Gotos, Modular Development, and Appropriate Register Utilization, been there and done that. You are as right as rain! Thanks...

M.


Not all gray hairs are Dinosaurs!
Post #1476682
Posted Tuesday, July 23, 2013 10:00 AM


SSC Veteran

SSC VeteranSSC VeteranSSC VeteranSSC VeteranSSC VeteranSSC VeteranSSC VeteranSSC Veteran

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Thursday, November 6, 2014 3:24 PM
Points: 224, Visits: 640
Communicate often and regularly with the developers, who are your clients. Address their needs and change direction when needed. And of course, knock them around when needed as well. A little "rugby DBA'ing" is a good thing.

It's good to see a DBA viewing developers as customers. And it's also good to see a willingness by a DBA to push back at developers when truly needed.

What is true about developers is what is true about any other customer: 'The customer may not always be right, but s/he's still the customer'.
Post #1476694
« Prev Topic | Next Topic »

Add to briefcase ««123»»

Permissions Expand / Collapse