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No reason to abandon SQL Expand / Collapse
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Posted Saturday, May 24, 2014 12:29 PM


Mr or Mrs. 500

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Comments posted to this topic are about the item No reason to abandon SQL


Best wishes,

Phil Factor
Simple Talk
Post #1574331
Posted Sunday, May 25, 2014 5:53 AM


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Interesting. It's good to see that the stuff some of us were trying to do quarter of a century ago has finally been done.

Oracle's OPS was an attempt to do this back in the 80s and 90s. Also ICL worked on a massively parallel system in the late 80s, and built a relational engine on it which got quite good benchmark results, but senior management decided it didn't want a home-grown RDBMS so that was killed off. Then we were asked to put Ingres on a massively paralllel platform but I killed that idea fairly quickly - we had an Ingres port to our mainframes, and none of the engineers thought that Ingres would be a good starting point for serious parallelism; in the early 90s ICL and Bull and some others were collaborating on another new RDBMS to run on the European Declarative System project's engine - massive parallelism using cheap hardware again - but that went nowhere, as might be expected with a "collaboration" where the partners all had different objectives, so eventually ICL and Oracle collaborated to put Oracle's OPS on ICL's parallel platform (ICL providing the OS and the lock manager, Oracle providing the RDBMS apart from the lock manager) - and senior management decided as soon as it sort of worked to put the project into QA and split up the development team into other projects so that it could never more than sort of work and they could scrap it - despite which ICL France hijacked a pre-production demo system, got it working better than just sort of, and sold it (in 1995) to a big French bank (who were very happy with it) - that success of course didn't prevent the project being scrapped and no more systems were built or sold.


Tom
Post #1574382
Posted Sunday, May 25, 2014 4:22 PM
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This is another case where open source excels- there is no legacy revenue stream to protect. Eventually Oracle and Microsoft with adopt, extend and deploy what is happening here.
Post #1574421
Posted Monday, May 26, 2014 6:29 AM


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At my last gig, I started investigating NUO DB (thinking about the comment "should SQL be added to Hadoop?"). At the time, it seemed like a really cool blend of SQL and noSQL solutions (newSQL). I decided to jump companies 6 months ago and had to abandon my research. I hope to pick it back up once this new company starts seeing large databases.
Post #1574511
Posted Tuesday, May 27, 2014 6:25 AM
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There's a local startup company that may have the answer to distributed SQL: http://hugedata.com/

They have given some presentations in the DFW area that looked very interesting.
Post #1574750
Posted Wednesday, May 28, 2014 3:25 AM
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I'm working with a game developer where NoSQL solutions have been chosen and for good reason--speed. Relational is a pretty big burden on the team when they can just develop and throw chunks into a bucket at ease without a DBA on hand.

On the article. I don't really see the light. I mean, how is having more control over your data and the pipes in which your data flows mentioned as somewhat of a negative thing? That's a good thing! Sure, it comes at a price, but the end result may be well worth the effort if you had covered it in more detail.

At the end of day, it should be obvious MapReduce would be a cultural shock to any SQL developer. It's not SQL! These things are pretty obvious because it's a completely different direction from their possible current skillset.

Like... Why are we considering SQL for NoSQL outside of trying to keep Johnny the SQL Developer employed? These are better questions to answer than trying to satisfy those who do not want to move away from SQL. For example, covering what the actual business or project benefits are to using one or the other? I already know Johnny is going to be on edge when we start moving away from SQL, but what can we benefit outside of him? The business or project SHOULD outlast Johnny and me regardless of his or my personal preference.

It's about the tools that get the job done for me. How is this tool with or without SQL going to help me?
Post #1575098
Posted Friday, May 30, 2014 8:54 AM
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Hi Phil,

You ask "The early signs are that we can now run a SQL-based relational database with distributed execution plans over commodity hardware, leaving just the task of splicing together of the result to the engine itself, then why can’t Microsoft or Oracle do it?".

Microsoft already does this via the appliance called APS (Analytics Platform System), which was formally called Parallel Data Warehouse (PDW). More info is at http://www.jamesserra.com/archive/2014/03/parallel-data-warehouse-pdw-benefits-made-simple/
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