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Posted Wednesday, November 13, 2013 9:57 AM
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Isn't this true of television manufacturers, carpet makers, stereo manufacturers, and... just about every other business?
Would you be happy with a new stereo that could only play sound from one speaker, as long as it was promised to be replaced with a working version within six months to a year?
I wouldn't. I'd buy a different one from a proper manufacturer.


First generations of many manufactured products and electronics tend to have reputations just as sketchy as microsoft software.

I have often heard not to be first model years of a redesigned car. Brand new electronics often see the excitement of the new version be fixes of a bunch of stuff the users found annoying with the old version.

In short, this example kind of works against you. Software is not the only industry that ships before its perfect. Everyone that selling something sets their own threshold of "good enough".
Post #1513972
Posted Wednesday, November 13, 2013 2:18 PM


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I have seen quite a few DVD/BluRay players in the last decade like that. I've returned some and gotten others, quality has not improved. At some point I've lived with it. Or I've moved on and gone to more streaming, though many of those "apps", which are software, don't work well.

I see the same thing with tools. There are times that things don't work well, or seem to suffer quality issues. Sometimes I return them, sometimes I get by.

There's no easy answer. However I do think some sort of warranty is reasonable for software, as is the ability to return it or sell it to others.







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Post #1514062
Posted Thursday, November 14, 2013 2:31 AM


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Steve Jones - SSC Editor (11/13/2013)
I have seen ... ...software, don't work well.


Haven't we all?

Steve Jones - SSC Editor (11/13/2013)
...I do think some sort of warranty is reasonable for software...


Absolutely!!!


Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
Post #1514182
Posted Thursday, November 14, 2013 7:15 AM


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Steve Jones - SSC Editor (11/13/2013)
I have seen quite a few DVD/BluRay players in the last decade like that. I've returned some and gotten others, quality has not improved. At some point I've lived with it. Or I've moved on and gone to more streaming, though many of those "apps", which are software, don't work well.

I see the same thing with tools. There are times that things don't work well, or seem to suffer quality issues. Sometimes I return them, sometimes I get by.

There's no easy answer. However I do think some sort of warranty is reasonable for software, as is the ability to return it or sell it to others.

When a DVD/BluRay player fails to load a disk, the root problem may be the manufactoring quality of the disk itself. Some players have better error handling at the hardware or software level to compensate for a poor encoding or defective disk. Engineers are provided with specifications about what variations in encoding are to be expected and what tollerance levels they should work within.

It's the same way with ETL and data formats. For example, what should we do when a patient's date of birth = '1982-02-29'; raise an exception, reject the record, or recode it as '1982-02-28' ? The business has to make that decision and include the scenario in the specifications.
Post #1514270
Posted Tuesday, November 19, 2013 4:12 AM
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Re the argument about quality and shipping, I find this quote I heard several years ago to be quite apposite.

"A Morris Minor that is 100% complete will get you further than a Rolls Royce that is 90% complete".
Post #1515488
Posted Tuesday, November 19, 2013 6:54 AM


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As a database developer, if 2 + 2 -1 = 3 and the result is returned from the databse faster than the web browser can render the HTML, then my job is done.

But, God knows that I would be poor web developer.

You're always going to have users, and even some stakeholders, who arn't completely satisfied with the front end aspect of a website. That's why web developers are always dicking around with the design and layout long after go live, and also why web development frameworks have a lifespan of about four years before they toss it for something else. It's not about "getting it right" the first time around, it about constantly jogging and trying to catch up with that fuzzy and moving target of perfection that always seems just over the horizon.
Post #1515531
Posted Tuesday, November 19, 2013 7:10 AM


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Eric M Russell (11/19/2013)
As a database developer, if 2 + 2 -1 = 3 and the result is returned from the databse faster than the web browser can render the HTML, then my job is done.

But, God knows that I would be poor web developer.

You're always going to have users, and even some stakeholders, who arn't completely satisfied with the front end aspect of a website. That's why web developers are always dicking around with the design and layout long after go live, and also why web development frameworks have a lifespan of about four years before they toss it for something else. It's not about "getting it right" the first time around, it about constantly jogging and trying to catch up with that fuzzy and moving target of perfection that always seems just over the horizon.


Totally. That's why there is so much effort placed on the SOLID principles (and other techniques etc.) in software development nowadays. We need stable systems that are flexible. They appear to be opposing requirements and to some degree they are. You need the flexibility the closer you get to the front end and the stability the closer you get to the back end but there will always be an expected level of stability in UIs and flexibility in back ends. Keep up the good work guys and gals


Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
Post #1515536
Posted Tuesday, November 19, 2013 7:26 AM


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Jeff Moden (11/9/2013)
Gary Varga (11/8/2013)
Jeff Moden (11/7/2013)
..."Doing it right the first time" shouldn't be just a motto. It should be the best of all practices.


Absolutely, but in the context of the posts on this thread: doing it right does not necessarily equate to doing it all. Yes, what you deliver must be done right but you may have to choose to not deliver the complete (perfect) system in the first instance (no DB pun intended) in order to deliver when required.


I never said that "doing it right" is the same as "doing it all".


+1000!

This is the mentality I am faced with in the system I now support. Like many systems, it has evolved. The basic development premise was get it done, we have a deadline.

Now, the sun total of all the "little clunky" modules is a nightmare of performance issues and bugs, coupled with an impossible to change architecture.

Because there is significant pressure to get things done cheaper, faster, and cheaper (said that twice!!) from almost all companies, "doing it right" gets confused with "doing it all".






Michael L John
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