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Do You Want a Meritocracy at Work? Expand / Collapse
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Posted Saturday, June 15, 2013 3:22 PM
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L' Eomot Inversé (6/15/2013)
DavidL (6/14/2013)
Richard Warr (6/14/2013)

Age is just as irrelevant as .... what football team you support.


That might be stretching it, but I understand the point you were trying to make


I'm pretty sure it isn't stretching it....


Few things are more relevant that which football team you support.txtPost_CommentEmoticon('');



Post #1463902
Posted Saturday, June 15, 2013 7:18 PM


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HA! HA! Hi Tom, no I don't live in the UK, I'm in the southwestern US. I am just a long time Doctor Who fan, since the 1980's. (Full disclosure, my avatar is of the British actor, Tom Baker, who played the Doctor in the BBC series "Doctor Who", from 1974 to 1980. Tom Baker is still my favorite, ever, to have played the Doctor.)


Rod
Post #1463916
Posted Saturday, June 15, 2013 8:08 PM


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david.gugg (6/14/2013)
I've only been in the professional workspace for 5 years now, so I probably don't have the perspective that most of you do. I like the idea of a meritocracy, having benefited from it myself going from a math degree with no computer background to the early stages of a DBA job. However, one thing that makes me wary is companies that use managerial positions as a way of rewarding good work. I know I'd personally suck at being a manager - I just don't have that skill set. I want to know that I can grow in my role and be a really good DBA who can bring a ton of value to the company and be rewarded just for that rather than being pushed into a higher level or thought lacking in ambition.


I have been fortunate that my work for for Fortune 500 companies has all been in independent subsidiaries or tertiary IT type work as a temp. My last company (10 years) I was as a programmer and then moved into the DBA position they created for me. They realized that I would never be good as a wetware manager, but give me a server and I can make it dance.

My current job was a brand new DBA position on a support desk to support trouble shooting production DB/SW issues without disturbing the developers. In the interview I told them I can manage project teams and do training but I don't want to manage people on an ongoing basis. They liked that. I make about $10-15K less than my manager and enjoy my job. There is also no push to go into wetware management, but I do so much (including network sysadmin stuff) they have given me regular raises.

The other question that needs to be at least viewed, if not answered is how many DBA's are in a typical company? Even a 24/7 operation may only have three - five production DBA types and two - four dev/QA DBA's. A meritocracy among those few people doesn't really matter. But lumping them into the rest of an IT department that is running 200+ servers and has 50 IT people is a questionable evaluation.




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Post #1463921
Posted Monday, June 17, 2013 9:44 AM


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Steve Jones wrote:

It may mean that the newest, youngest person at your company might rise much faster than you simply because they're a better DBA or developer.

Sounds a bit like ageism to me. Since when does 'younger' necessarily equate to 'better'?
Post #1464226
Posted Monday, June 17, 2013 9:46 AM


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David Tennant. Tom Baker a close second!
Post #1464228
Posted Monday, June 17, 2013 10:02 AM


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Craig-315134 (6/17/2013)
Steve Jones wrote:

It may mean that the newest, youngest person at your company might rise much faster than you simply because they're a better DBA or developer.

Sounds a bit like ageism to me. Since when does 'younger' necessarily equate to 'better'?


Totally disagree. The younger DBA or developer may be better. It is a valid scenario. Just like the older DBA or developer may be better. I believe Steve is saying that we cannot assume either way.


Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
Post #1464235
Posted Monday, June 17, 2013 10:07 AM


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Perhaps that was Steve Jones' intent, but it could easily be interpreted as a slam against older workers.

Why was age specifically used as an example? Would it have been any more acceptable to say a black, or Hispanic, or female colleague 'may' rise more quickly?
Post #1464242
Posted Monday, June 17, 2013 10:15 AM
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Craig-315134 (6/17/2013)
Steve Jones wrote:

It may mean that the newest, youngest person at your company might rise much faster than you simply because they're a better DBA or developer.

Sounds a bit like ageism to me. Since when does 'younger' necessarily equate to 'better'?


It doesn't, which is probably why he included the word "may".

Sometimes younger/older does me faster/slower. For example, a younger person may be faster at something, and sometimes an older more experienced person may be faster. Sometimes faster means nothing more than that, sometimes faster means less quality. IMO when you add the qualifier of "may mean" that eliminates any possibility of discrimination.

Hearing someone say that a "square is a rectangle" should not offend anyone, and neither should "a rectangle may be a square".


Dave
Post #1464253
Posted Monday, June 17, 2013 10:17 AM


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Craig-315134 (6/17/2013)
Perhaps that was Steve Jones' intent, but it could easily be interpreted as a slam against older workers.

Why was age specifically used as an example? Would it have been any more acceptable to say a black, or Hispanic, or female colleague 'may' rise more quickly?


Because in the context of the overall discussion people had raised age as an example where there was a false assumption attributed to it i.e. younger was better. There was plenty of examples discussed of when this did not apply and, I am assuming, in the course of balance Steve said that there may be cases where this is actually the case.

I have never heard anyone say anything as ridiculous such as "Magyars make the best programmers" (except for me in jest - being half-Hungarian ). That would just be silly.


Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
Post #1464256
Posted Monday, June 17, 2013 10:29 AM
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Craig-315134 (6/17/2013)
Perhaps that was Steve Jones' intent, but it could easily be interpreted as a slam against older workers.

Why was age specifically used as an example? Would it have been any more acceptable to say a black, or Hispanic, or female colleague 'may' rise more quickly?

It would have been equally acceptable.

There is nothing at all wrong with the statement. We as a society really need to stop all the PC garbage. Humans all have different qualities, no matter what certain groups want us to believe. Acknowledging that someone may be different is NOT discrimination, it is a fact of life.


Dave
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