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David.Poole
David.Poole
Posted Monday, January 28, 2013 9:54 AM
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Don't forget that 64bit removes the limit on the size of the proc cache. Under 32bit SQL proc cache was limited to 2GB so it would never munch its way throught he buffer cache.
Some businesses migrate on a cost vs benefit principle. I have software that works better than it needs to running on platform 'x', why would I pay for an upgrade for no tangible benefit?
The fact that it runs on old hardware that might break or causes headaches for us in IT is seen as irrelevant.
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Post #1412521
Steve Jones - SSC Editor
Steve Jones - SSC Editor
Posted Monday, January 28, 2013 10:54 AM
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lptech (1/28/2013)
There are always people who will be penny wise and pound foolish. Servers need to be replaced, so why not take advantage of more powerful hardware? Not everybody wants to be bleeding edge, but certainly no need to wait more than 1-2 years. Also, people get paid with real money. So it's a waste of time and money to spend endless time working of performance issues that could be solved with hardware that costs less than the salary for all those involved. The business would be better served if said individuals were working on new systems.
The vendor app issue is the one thing that can be really hard to get around. I remember a few times over the years when the business was perfectly happy with the older version that hadn't been certified newer versions of just about everything.
Note that hardware doesn't necessarily remove the need for 32 bit software.
I agree that x86 hardware should go, if for no other reason than DR. You can't easily replace x86 hardware. But you might need 32 bit software, and you can run that in a VM if needed.
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Post #1412561
Andrew-H
Andrew-H
Posted Monday, January 28, 2013 10:59 AM
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Very true. That's what we do. Not sure if we even have any 32 bit hardware other than several desktop machines. All 32 bit servers we manage are VM's.
Post #1412566
djackson 22568
djackson 22568
Posted Monday, January 28, 2013 11:10 AM
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chrisn-585491 (1/28/2013)
We've had two plus decades of sales pressure and promotion from Redmond and others "encouraging" us to upgrade. After a while users realize that the newer versions of software aren't always necessary or anymore useful than the older ones and in some cases, (Vista, Windows 8, etc...), they can be confusing and costly to implement.
Windows 8, do you mean Vista 2? That is what I call it. I laughed at all the media articles saying Windows 8 was outselling Windows 7, and I really started laughing when Microsoft finally admitted it was selling WORSE THAN Vista!
Windows 8 has ads embedded in the start page, why would I buy an OS that forces me to see their ads?
It mimics the XBox screen - really, are we a business or do we encourage our employees to play games all day?
PC sales are down right now, and I bet the ENTIRE reason is the incredibly poor decisions made by Microsoft to try to force everyone to use a tablet OS on a desktop. Businesses need productivity. Windows 8 WILL NOT make anyone more productive on a desktop, it will make them less productive. Before anyone thinks I am just against change, I embraced the ribbon bar in Office even though it took me a while to do so, and I still struggle to do some things. I recognize that there are advantages to the design in spite of my learning curve. I do not believe Windows 8 offers any value along those lines.
Dave
Post #1412570
djackson 22568
djackson 22568
Posted Monday, January 28, 2013 11:22 AM
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I work for a medium size health care organization that has to follow government mandates due to HIPAA, the president's health care plan, ICD10 and other changes. We also have to implement new software to continue to improve productivity for areas that need it, upgrade software for everything we already have, handle incoming calls on new issues that arise, and a bunch of other tasks. We do this in an environment that requires us to maintain old hardware and software due to limited resources - that is simply a fact in health care today due to the excessive government regulations. We still have SQL Server installs older than SQL 2000, we still have an NT domain, we still have servers running Windows NT. 95% of our desktop/laptop installs run Windows XP or older OS versions, thankfully I do not believe anything older than Windows 2000. We have PCs and servers that are more than 10 years old.
Yes, we have 64bit hardware, yes we are using VMWare, but that is for new installations and products that have seen a recent major upgrade. A lot of systems simply can't be upgraded for various reasons. I doubt we will fully migrate to 64bit until 256 bit hardware is prevalent, which most likely will come after 128bit. My guess, sometime around 2035. Um, wait, isn't that the year we are going to see the "Y2K for Unix" issue? Sigh.
Dave
Post #1412574
Revenant
Revenant
Posted Monday, January 28, 2013 11:38 AM
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djackson 22568 (1/28/2013)
... Windows 8 has ads embedded in the start page, why would I buy an OS that forces me to see their ads? . . .
Where did you buy it? Did it come on a new machine?
I would bet those ads were put there by an OEM - certainly not by MSFT.
Post #1412582
djackson 22568
djackson 22568
Posted Monday, January 28, 2013 11:50 AM
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Revenant (1/28/2013)
djackson 22568 (1/28/2013)
... Windows 8 has ads embedded in the start page, why would I buy an OS that forces me to see their ads? . . .
Where did you buy it? Did it come on a new machine?
I would bet those ads were put there by an OEM - certainly not by MSFT.
What I have read is that it is embedded in the OS, and is put there by MS. Google "Windows 8 ads on desktop" and you will see a huge number of articles that discuss this, many of which indicate it was enabled by Microsoft and their own metro apps have ads.
There were enough articles about this that I returned a copy I had purchased with the intent to run it using Parallels on my MacBook Pro. Not sure why I even considered doing something so stupid anyhow.
Dave
Post #1412586
Revenant
Revenant
Posted Monday, January 28, 2013 12:13 PM
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djackson 22568 (1/28/2013)
Revenant (1/28/2013)
djackson 22568 (1/28/2013)
... Windows 8 has ads embedded in the start page, why would I buy an OS that forces me to see their ads? . . .
Where did you buy it? Did it come on a new machine?
I would bet those ads were put there by an OEM - certainly not by MSFT.
What I have read is that it is embedded in the OS, and is put there by MS. Google "Windows 8 ads on desktop" and you will see a huge number of articles that discuss this, many of which indicate it was enabled by Microsoft and their own metro apps have ads.
There were enough articles about this that I returned a copy I had purchased with the intent to run it using Parallels on my MacBook Pro. Not sure why I even considered doing something so stupid anyhow.
Oh my. However, this is not happening with my Win8 Pro, that's why I suspected OEMs.
However, this gets us form the 32/64 bit discussion; sorry.
Post #1412597
djackson 22568
djackson 22568
Posted Monday, January 28, 2013 12:57 PM
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Last Login: Tuesday, May 07, 2013 8:56 AM
Points: 310,
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Revenant (1/28/2013)
djackson 22568 (1/28/2013)
Revenant (1/28/2013)
djackson 22568 (1/28/2013)
... Windows 8 has ads embedded in the start page, why would I buy an OS that forces me to see their ads? . . .
Where did you buy it? Did it come on a new machine?
I would bet those ads were put there by an OEM - certainly not by MSFT.
What I have read is that it is embedded in the OS, and is put there by MS. Google "Windows 8 ads on desktop" and you will see a huge number of articles that discuss this, many of which indicate it was enabled by Microsoft and their own metro apps have ads.
There were enough articles about this that I returned a copy I had purchased with the intent to run it using Parallels on my MacBook Pro. Not sure why I even considered doing something so stupid anyhow.
Oh my. However, this is not happening with my Win8 Pro, that's why I suspected OEMs.
However, this gets us form the 32/64 bit discussion; sorry.
Well, sort of. However I believe Windows 8 is all 64bit, no 32bit. Assuming I am correct, and assuming that implementation of it is slower than MS anticipated, that affects the transition to 64bit on the desktop. Windows 7 is available in both flavors, and while I run 64bit there, most of the installs I am around are 32bit. Of course this won't affect server side implementations.
For your copy of Windows 8, do you use whatever the "metro apps" are, because they are also supposed to have ads.
Dave
Post #1412617
lptech
lptech
Posted Monday, January 28, 2013 2:11 PM
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Steve, excellent point, to isolate 32 bit stragglers in their own VM's. For those who are content to be 'dumb and happy', and I got this term from a user who referred to himself as that, they need to know the cost they are imposing on the enterprise.
Post #1412652
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