Motivation
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MotivationThis is an interesting blog about life at Microsoft and life at Google by someone that worked for MS and now is at Google. It's basically a contrast and comparison on the work habits observed.
First let me say that the way Google is described right now is not the way I think you should work. Maybe for a few weeks at the end of a project, but if this is anywhere near 25% or more of your time then you are missing out on life. Not that work can't be fun, exciting, and as fulfilling as anything else you do, but it's unbalanced if you are working all night too often. If you don't have a family that's one thing. But there are lots of smart people that can contribute to projects with families and it's not something they should be doing.
One of the reasons I've not been interested in working at Microsoft is the stories I've heard that people working like this most of the time. And yes I've been asked once or twice. The biggest reason I haven't pursued it is because of Seattle's weather, but long hours rank up there as well.
However, everyone choose how they live their lives and if you like this type of atmosphere, then certainly Google sounds cool and I'm sure that some of the conclusions about those long time Microsoft'ers not wanting to work hard is partly true. Everyone burns out and if you think that in ten years Google will be the same, I think you're wrong.
Most of us grow up, or grow old at least, and our priorities change. The things that excited us when we were younger don't anymore. Or our bodies can't take it. I started playing baseball again as an adult and as much as I'd like to go 100%, dive for a steal at second or take chances, my body won't do it anymore. Or at least I'll pay for quite a few days if I try. The same thing goes for us at work. We may have thrived on all-night coding sessions at 24, but at 35, it's something else and we're less willing to do it.
But I think there's more to it than that. SQL Server 2005 has changed the paradigm of the product quite a bit, but at the core it's still the same product. I think the same thing goes for most of Microsoft's products, they're old and less exciting. So there's just less motivation. I think that's part of the problem; Google is innovating in that they're pushing boundaries and trying new things.
I bet the XBOX group is working late. The other divisions needs someting cool and exciting to jumpstart them. Maybe it's the Live suite.
Steve Jones
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I too have gone through periods of working insane amounts, and I'm now in the position of having a family, and wanting a better life/work balance.
However, I think it's about maturity, both for the company and the individual. I like to make the comparison that it's the difference between a fighter pilot and an airline pilot. Naturally, it's more exciting and cool being a fighter pilot, but your priorites are very different: When the enemy is attacking, get your plane into the sky and shoot at the bad guy is about it. Oh and try to stay alive if you can.
Whereas your airline pilot's number one priority is to get the passengers to the destination alive. To this end, it's all about safety checks and following procedures - If there's a hitch, you don't take off.
I want the technical guys I work with to be like the airline pilots personally, and I think the owners and users of our website want that too - just like the owners and users of an aeroplane don't want a caffeine-fuelled adrenaline junkie in charge.
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It can be even tougher drawing a line if you are female. I am reaching what I believe is the ripe old age of 30. My priorities are changing in my head and at some point I would like to stop working for a while and have a family. This makes me wonder whether my currently very stressful job is worth it as I wont be able to maintain it and do my best in the future.
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I agree with everything said, but Steve, you sound older than I am. I still do my 48 hours non-stop when needed, especially at a game LAN and I am 51. 🙂
5ilverFox
Consulting DBA / Developer
South Africa -
As I read the blog and comments, and the the replies to today's editorial, I was reminded of the early days of building my own business where an 80+ hour work week was common. I've always been fascinated that people are willing to work that much for someone else, regardless of the money, because at some point the personal returns on your time investment are unimpressively low. Of course, it is often impossible to see that at the time.
I think too many people mistake their passion for productivity, and equate time spent with accomplishment. It was about 10 years into my working life that I started to notice how my time really broke down: 30 productive hours that were exhausting and rewarding on most every level, with almost everything else showing less return on investment, and anything over about 50 hours being pure slack time where I was working from either frustration or stupidity. While the numbers may vary, my bet is that the relative quality of work doesn't vary for most people -- and it has nothing to do with how excited you are about what you do.
About 10 years ago I began to work a lot smarter, not because of age (though age and family demand it), but because the experiences of the past taught some hard lessons about what is worthwhile. I no longer do back-to-back all-night sessions, refuse a lot more work than I take on, and feel very little stress about deadlines because I have trained my clients to think first about quality. As a result, I haven't missed a deadline in a decade (except the self-imposed ones), have extremely happy clients, and find that burn-out is a mere flicker in my memory. Just like playing baseball as one gets older, you start to rely less on the brute force approach and start to play smarter -- the pop fly to mid-field at a gory angle still gets you on base, as ugly as it looks, and the steal that you get because of the years of watching and patience still gets you into scoring position.
Anyone who seriously believes that working excessively is a sign of passion is deluding themselves. Yes, even now I have been known to occasionally log 60+ hours in a busy week, because the industry makes that demand sometimes, but viewing it as normal is placing undue importance on work. Work isn't life, and you can love your work without making your work your life. I'm reminded of a mentor who once told me that economy of motion in work is the sign of quality of workmanship, that it comes from experience, and that your life's work is never to be confused with your life.
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I'd have to agree. Even at 30, my priorities have changed considerably. I've only had 3 serious career environments over the past 15 years, but, my focus has changed considerably.
My first was a for-profit BBS that I ran. I made decent money, but, there was always a battle keeping users up, and payments coming in. I regularly would spend 20-40 hours straight making some sweeping changes that I just thought were a good idea. At that point, I didn't feel I needed a social life outside of marketing myself, and my BBS, so, the rare occasion I put down the keyboard, and walked away, I was doing it to go drum up more customers, or, on an even rarer occasion, eat or sleep.
Then came my second. I worked at a emergency vehicle manu (yeah, we made firetrucks, the big ones... with ladders on top...) I worked for an average near 50 hours a week there maintaining an AS400, and running jobs, and still found time to work on my BBS (which I started to transition to a free hobby by this point)... Usually to the tune of 20+ more hours a week.
Finally, I ended up where I am now. One of the .coms that hasn't fallen off the map. I started out as a temp after moving half way across the country. I quickly moved into their AS400 operations group, and while I was taking some college classes, I realized I was good at programming. I quickly improved my skills, and wrote some very powerful business applications. 6 years later, I'm still here, I've dropped back from the initial 50 hour weeks to hovering right around 40 (other then emergencies). I've also moved into the role of the primary AS400 admin, as well as managing a small department, and handling most of the distributions programming.
My wife however has a different view of work, which I hate to say, it's hard to not have rub off on me. She thinks my 8 hours should start with my morning 30 min commute, include a 30 min lunch, and my 30 min commute on the way home. But, when IT built a task list a couple weeks ago, and I realized my list was as long as their list was for 7 people, I realized that 40-50/week really isn't so bad.
How have I changed? 7 years ago, I would have gone on a marathon finishing up the task list in a matter of weeks if not days, I'd work 60+ hours, and I'd go home and spend 20+ hours working on private projects... now... 40 cuts it, and I'll eventually get caught up. programming at home? who has the time, or the motivation? especially when it involves complex math, and figuring distances between points on a sphere...
I guess I'm getting old before my time...
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I haven't been to visit the Google campus yet, but the dotcom startup that I was a teensy part of from 2000 to 2005 was a Yahoo! partner and I got to spend some time on their campus when Yahoo! was on the rise and it was "cool" to work there. One big contrast between Yahoo! and Microsoft that I remember noticing was the use of the foosball, ping-pong and pool tables. It always seemed like the folks @ Yahoo! were always in a panic, late for a deadline and nobody was ever playing. In Redmond (as recently as last week), there always seemed to be folks playing one or more of those games. The "everyone works in a cubicle" mentality (even at the top of the food chain) at Yahoo! was always a little weird, too. Perhaps the "everyone has an office" environment contributes to the more relaxed, quieter environment in Redmond?
I do NOT miss the startup environment. My job as a BI consultant now is 100% travel (usually Sunday evening through Thursday night) and I still spend more time with my family now than I ever did when I suffered under the delusion that my little piece of ownership in the startup would ever come out to mean "big money" in the nebulous timeframe "someday." The responsibility of managing a $2.5M-a-year team of developers at the startup kept me working 60 to 80 hours a week (or more if I wound up actually having to write code). Sometimes I miss being "the boss" but all things considered, I'm much, much happier now with a regular three-day weekend to spend with the wife and kids without the distraction of the CEO calling me every couple hours on Sunday to "adjust my work priorities" or "prepare for the Monday morning meeting." I guess I still sort of work the same way while I'm on the road, putting my 40 to 50 hours into five nights/four days, but I certainly feel less "stressed out" and it's easier to make time to study up on new tech, work on my pet UAV design and exercise than it was on the 7-day work-week startup schedule. (Yes, the CEO still referred to our company as a startup even after 5.5 years of operations... I had to have surgery in order to take my vacation time there.)
Having visited with in person (and/or spent considerable time in teleconference) with some of the BI product teams in Redmond, I can say that they're just as passionate about the code they write and the impact they have on the business world as you imagine the Xbox team might have... and I suspect there's lower turnover in the enterprise products' bodycount.
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Thank you for saying this. I turn 26 tomorrow, and as I get closer to 30 than I am 20, I wonder about my future and my career. Sure, I'd love to have kids one day, but at the same time, I'm afraid of losing my career. I'm at the point where I'm evaluating where I'm at now, where I want to be, and how I plan to get there while hoping to be raising kids as well.
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The blog makes what I think is a salient point about the possibility that companies can reach a stage of complacency, resulting in the culture that he (I assume it is a he because the entry was signed "markl," which I read as "Mark L.") sees as laden with a "fat cat" mentality.
But overall, I think his point about work is less compelling. I agree with Steve that people can be in various stages of life and still have things to contribute. I like the baseball analogy used by Frank Buchan in this thread, and if he doesn't mind, I will extend the analogy.
The Google attitude that the blog author saw recently (and the one he says he saw at Microsoft years ago) is comparable to the attitude of a competitive major league starting pitcher who stays in the game as long as possible, 100+ pitches into the game, extra innings if he could. That is the way a lot of pitchers pitched in the old days. For example, the game on September 1, 1906 where Jack Coombs and Joe Harris each pitched the whole 24 innings.
But what makes baseball great is that there are other players. Short relievers, bench players, etc. Everyone contributes in their own way, and as long as they do their specific job well, the team as a whole is more likely to win. The same can also be said of a great company.
Like any analogy, this one is imperfect, because what I think "markl" was saying is that companies that get too safe become poor places to be an innovative worker. In a way, though, I think he's comparing apples and oranges, or rather, focusing too much on one side when there are pros and cons to consider.
From my relativiely small level of experience, I can already see that a lot of the problems with IT tend to stem from efforts to be too heroic. Too often we see people staying late and working all hours in an attempt to look heroic, but the sheer amount of time spent working is less important than how that time is spent. I don't doubt the existence of the atmosphere the author describes, of Google and Microsoft when developers are "in the zone." I'm sure both types of places exist, and I don't want to excuse any real "fat cat" mentality that can creep in at certain companies.
But there is an equally great atmosphere when everything is working, when no one has to rush for a deadline, when there is a controlled process involving version control, planning, testing, and all of the other less glamorous stuff that no one notices until it's missing. Just because people in a place like that may leave before midnight doesn't mean they are shirking their duties or resigned to a life of tedious boredom. They may derive great joy from setting up a system that doesn't require staying until 4:00 a.m. It's like a baseball team that rarely goes into extra innings because they put the game away early on good starting pitching and they will pick the smart, fundamental play over the risky attempt at a dazzling Web Gem.
And, of course, there are the family issues, too. As if it needed to be stated, people with families are just as capable of innovative thinking and energetic work as anyone -- just they can't do so from 8:00 a.m. of one day to 4:00 a.m. the next, week in and week out. It would be a shame to discount their contributions by overemphasizing the allure of having a company of Heroic DevelopersTM where anyone who doesn't put in a 20-hour day is considered a slacker.
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A SQL query walks into a bar and sees two tables. He walks up to them and asks, "Can I join you?"
Ref.: http://tkyte.blogspot.com/2009/02/sql-joke.html -
I have worked at Microsoft for over 5 years and it is a great place to work. It's a big company with numerous groups and opportunities. Like every company you, do have your busy times.
I still have fond memories of someone asking me why in the world I would want to work for Microsoft when I could make so much more working for an internet start up...
John
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With a deadline looming long hours are sometimes necessary, and then the extra effort will make a difference. But I agree with Frank Buchan that if you put in too many hours, at some point you work "from either frustration or stupidity".
Sometimes I stay late and struggle with a piece of code until I make it work, and then on the way home I realise that the problem I "solved" can quite easily be avoided from occurring in the first place. The next day the code that took so much time is thrown away and as a bonus the overall result is a much simpler and cleaner solution.
Working smarter can sometimes mean simply going home on time, and taking a fresh look in the morning. But I guess that it is something we all have to learn the hard way.
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