Are the posted questions getting worse?

  • ZZartin wrote:

    Lynn Pettis wrote:

    ZZartin wrote:

    Lynn Pettis wrote:

    below86 wrote:

    Lynn Pettis wrote:

    Yes, I voted for Trump in 2016. First, he wasn't my first choice. Second, there was no way on Gods green earth I was voting for an unindicted, unconvicted felon for President. I am sorry if there are those of you who disagree, but Hillary Clinton and her entire staff that worked for her when she was Secretary of State should be be in prison for mishandling classified information. Period. Any of us on this thread or forum had done what she and her staff did would be prison. We would also, upon release, more than likely unable to obtain any sort of government clearance. And her saying she wasn't told, horse manure. Anyone who has a security clearance goes through mandatory annual training. If we don't complete the training, we lose are clearance and more than likely our job. We need to hold all government officials to this standard, elected and appointed. Period.

    I don't agree with many things Trump has said, but that is probably true of many people. I do, however, know that I have done better under four years of Trump than 8 years under Obama. I am not looking forward to what the next two years have instore for us.

    So many lies, I see why you like the 'dictator'.  Why isn't he held to the same standards?  If it was a democ0art in office and tried to pull a coup like T*** did, the republicans would be loosing their mind and would have already impeached the president.

    Open your eyes, don't be sheep.

    Says the sheep.  He is as much a dictator as Former President Obama.

    I don't agree with his actions after the election, but I do agree that there needs to be an investigation into the election, not to over turn it but to ensure that the problems that occurred this year don't happen again in future years.

    And, by the way, no previous President had to put up with fours years of obstruction like President Trump.  The Democrats didn't accept the results of the 2016 election, so how is that any different from this year?

    We should have a complete tear down of the entire voting system from top to bottom, not just this specific election.  At least in this election the popular vote actually aligned with the electoral college vote unlike certain other elections....

    You do realize that we don't elect the President based on a single National Election or the popular vote.  In fact, at one time we didn't even vote for the President and/or Vice President, we voted for Electors who then gathered and actually debated and argued over who would become the President and the Vice President.  Today it is 50 separate and independent State elections for the President.  You want the election of the President to be purely on the populare vote? Well, then California and New York will be the deciding factor in future elections.  The founders of our country established the Electoral College to keep the more populous States from dominating the electoral process.  Without it we wouldn't even be here now as the Southern States would not have joined the Union after the Revolutionary War because that was their fear, that the North would dominate the electoral process.

    I fully realize that's how the current system works.  And the way the current system works is that people in say Texas don't get to whine and complain about how say Pennsylvania conducts their election just because they don't like the results.

    I will agree with that. Each State makes its own rules. I may not like the jungle primary in California, but that is up to California and the people that live there.

     

  • x wrote:

    below86 wrote:

    The moron knew last January that it was going to be bad(Covid), but he kept saying it would go away.  And his followers believe anything that comes out of his mouth.  If he would have done his duty he would have been honest.  For god sakes he's on tape saying it, but I guess we should ignore that, like other facts.

    As my grandpa used to say "you can't fix stupid".  And I would add "you can't argue with stupid".

    Yeah but was it really stupidity, or (in my opinion) more likely selfish malice? After all, wasn't he caught on tape early in the year admitting the actual dangers, completely contradicting what he told the public?

     

    Yes, and then after catching it probably because he largely flaunted any kind of preventative measures privately as much as publicly he then proceeded to get much much better medical care than virtually anyone else would.

  • Luis Cazares wrote:

    Can we stop the political discussions? Both parties have plenty of problems and we shouldn't be discussing who's worse.

    You have a point, I've often felt that political discussions should be reserved for the folks with the mental aptitude to conduct a credible debate. We may be in short supply on that count LOLOL especially when we get to the flat earth theory, I mean I just can't buy into it, for instance, how does the ocean just not fall off the edge of the planet's disc? And if it does, where does it fall TO????

     

  • Facts and science. I have yet to see where anyone has gone out on a limb and determined what viral load is needed for most to come down with covid. Much less the impact each type of mask has on this. I can wear a gaiter or a hanky and meet our mask mandate. Having had to wear an n95 for years on the job, I chuckle at the political spin put on this. I wear my symbolic mask, and see that no one has stepped up to the plate to get good masks produced stateside for the public.

    So just for a general question, of the covid cases you know personally, what percentage wore a mask all the time in public? For me, it is real close to 100%. Even for a couple that work in the health field.

    My governor has made choices - some good, some bad - in combating the virus in our state. No matter what, he is in charge. He is also in much better position to make the calls than DC. I haven’t checked lately, but we were leading the nation for awhile on % of deaths for LTC residents. So I tend to place blame on him, as he is calling the shots. He insists on retaining peacetime emergency powers, which to me tells me he, not Trump or Biden, is shouldering responsibility. But maybe I am mistaken, and everything is someone else’s fault.

    No matter which side you are on, it seems no one is interested in all the facts. They tend to cherry pick only the ones that support their opinion. Many times, the truth is a little of both. With covid, we started pretty much at ground zero, and we are still learning. Experts in the field have changed as they learn more.

    So they come out with a study of asymptomatic people, stating 60% of the people testing positive show little to no symptoms. Then go on to say how long antibodies persist based is largely based on how sick you got. I am the type that questions whether they measured viral load in these people and determined if you are truly able to spread it. And if you are asymptomatic as your body knows how to fight this virus. And then question for other viruses, how long do antibodies exist in a measurable state? And what is the relationship, if any, to your immunity? There is a lot out there either unknown, or not shared.

  • Greg Edwards-268690 wrote:

    Facts and science. I have yet to see where anyone has gone out on a limb and determined what viral load is needed for most to come down with covid. Much less the impact each type of mask has on this. I can wear a gaiter or a hanky and meet our mask mandate. Having had to wear an n95 for years on the job, I chuckle at the political spin put on this. I wear my symbolic mask, and see that no one has stepped up to the plate to get good masks produced stateside for the public.

    So just for a general question, of the covid cases you know personally, what percentage wore a mask all the time in public? For me, it is real close to 100%. Even for a couple that work in the health field.

    My governor has made choices - some good, some bad - in combating the virus in our state. No matter what, he is in charge. He is also in much better position to make the calls than DC. I haven’t checked lately, but we were leading the nation for awhile on % of deaths for LTC residents. So I tend to place blame on him, as he is calling the shots. He insists on retaining peacetime emergency powers, which to me tells me he, not Trump or Biden, is shouldering responsibility. But maybe I am mistaken, and everything is someone else’s fault.

    No matter which side you are on, it seems no one is interested in all the facts. They tend to cherry pick only the ones that support their opinion. Many times, the truth is a little of both. With covid, we started pretty much at ground zero, and we are still learning. Experts in the field have changed as they learn more.

    So they come out with a study of asymptomatic people, stating 60% of the people testing positive show little to no symptoms. Then go on to say how long antibodies persist based is largely based on how sick you got. I am the type that questions whether they measured viral load in these people and determined if you are truly able to spread it. And if you are asymptomatic as your body knows how to fight this virus. And then question for other viruses, how long do antibodies exist in a measurable state? And what is the relationship, if any, to your immunity? There is a lot out there either unknown, or not shared.

    Thats a pretty good point, but how do you go about determining what initial dose is bad? There doesn't seem to be an ethical way to test this.

    This sort of "big problem" thing is frustrating but real. You literally don't know, and unless you are a repressive government with spare "citizens" to kill, you get hobbled by the failure to prove things, and lord knows you can't provide common sense arguments like "the possibility that masks help vastly outweight the miniscule costs of wearing them" because many people (especially in the USA) are intolerant of even the slightest temporary discomfort. The great generations that suffered immensely for the love of God and country are no more, just snowflakes everywhere you look.

    *shrug* whadya gonna do?

  • Greg Edwards-268690 wrote:

    ...

    So just for a general question, of the covid cases you know personally, what percentage wore a mask all the time in public? For me, it is real close to 100%. Even for a couple that work in the health field.

    ...

    Covid cases that I know personally? None.

     

  • x wrote:

    Greg Edwards-268690 wrote:

    Facts and science. I have yet to see where anyone has gone out on a limb and determined what viral load is needed for most to come down with covid. Much less the impact each type of mask has on this. I can wear a gaiter or a hanky and meet our mask mandate. Having had to wear an n95 for years on the job, I chuckle at the political spin put on this. I wear my symbolic mask, and see that no one has stepped up to the plate to get good masks produced stateside for the public.

    So just for a general question, of the covid cases you know personally, what percentage wore a mask all the time in public? For me, it is real close to 100%. Even for a couple that work in the health field.

    My governor has made choices - some good, some bad - in combating the virus in our state. No matter what, he is in charge. He is also in much better position to make the calls than DC. I haven’t checked lately, but we were leading the nation for awhile on % of deaths for LTC residents. So I tend to place blame on him, as he is calling the shots. He insists on retaining peacetime emergency powers, which to me tells me he, not Trump or Biden, is shouldering responsibility. But maybe I am mistaken, and everything is someone else’s fault.

    No matter which side you are on, it seems no one is interested in all the facts. They tend to cherry pick only the ones that support their opinion. Many times, the truth is a little of both. With covid, we started pretty much at ground zero, and we are still learning. Experts in the field have changed as they learn more.

    So they come out with a study of asymptomatic people, stating 60% of the people testing positive show little to no symptoms. Then go on to say how long antibodies persist based is largely based on how sick you got. I am the type that questions whether they measured viral load in these people and determined if you are truly able to spread it. And if you are asymptomatic as your body knows how to fight this virus. And then question for other viruses, how long do antibodies exist in a measurable state? And what is the relationship, if any, to your immunity? There is a lot out there either unknown, or not shared.

    Thats a pretty good point, but how do you go about determining what initial dose is bad? There doesn't seem to be an ethical way to test this.

    This sort of "big problem" thing is frustrating but real. You literally don't know, and unless you are a repressive government with spare "citizens" to kill, you get hobbled by the failure to prove things, and lord knows you can't provide common sense arguments like "the possibility that masks help vastly outweight the miniscule costs of wearing them" because many people (especially in the USA) are intolerant of even the slightest temporary discomfort. The great generations that suffered immensely for the love of God and country are no more, just snowflakes everywhere you look.

    *shrug* whadya gonna do?

    The real problem is people thinking you can save everyone. We can't save everyone from the Flu, what makes people think we could save everyone from Covid?

     

  • Lynn Pettis wrote:

    x wrote:

    Greg Edwards-268690 wrote:

    Facts and science. I have yet to see where anyone has gone out on a limb and determined what viral load is needed for most to come down with covid. Much less the impact each type of mask has on this. I can wear a gaiter or a hanky and meet our mask mandate. Having had to wear an n95 for years on the job, I chuckle at the political spin put on this. I wear my symbolic mask, and see that no one has stepped up to the plate to get good masks produced stateside for the public.

    So just for a general question, of the covid cases you know personally, what percentage wore a mask all the time in public? For me, it is real close to 100%. Even for a couple that work in the health field.

    My governor has made choices - some good, some bad - in combating the virus in our state. No matter what, he is in charge. He is also in much better position to make the calls than DC. I haven’t checked lately, but we were leading the nation for awhile on % of deaths for LTC residents. So I tend to place blame on him, as he is calling the shots. He insists on retaining peacetime emergency powers, which to me tells me he, not Trump or Biden, is shouldering responsibility. But maybe I am mistaken, and everything is someone else’s fault.

    No matter which side you are on, it seems no one is interested in all the facts. They tend to cherry pick only the ones that support their opinion. Many times, the truth is a little of both. With covid, we started pretty much at ground zero, and we are still learning. Experts in the field have changed as they learn more.

    So they come out with a study of asymptomatic people, stating 60% of the people testing positive show little to no symptoms. Then go on to say how long antibodies persist based is largely based on how sick you got. I am the type that questions whether they measured viral load in these people and determined if you are truly able to spread it. And if you are asymptomatic as your body knows how to fight this virus. And then question for other viruses, how long do antibodies exist in a measurable state? And what is the relationship, if any, to your immunity? There is a lot out there either unknown, or not shared.

    Thats a pretty good point, but how do you go about determining what initial dose is bad? There doesn't seem to be an ethical way to test this.

    This sort of "big problem" thing is frustrating but real. You literally don't know, and unless you are a repressive government with spare "citizens" to kill, you get hobbled by the failure to prove things, and lord knows you can't provide common sense arguments like "the possibility that masks help vastly outweight the miniscule costs of wearing them" because many people (especially in the USA) are intolerant of even the slightest temporary discomfort. The great generations that suffered immensely for the love of God and country are no more, just snowflakes everywhere you look.

    *shrug* whadya gonna do?

    The real problem is people thinking you can save everyone. We can't save everyone from the Flu, what makes people think we could save everyone from Covid?

    I like the fact that you posted this, you thinking that you have identified the "real problem", its very validating to me 🙂

    Cheers!

     

     

     

  • Since they can ‘mandate’, testing could be done for some of the answers by having everyone going into a Costco. They will shop there anyways. Some are bound to have covid. Follow up will show who it may have spread to. You can note what type of mask they had.

    Not like you are forcing them to be exposed, but much could be gathered. The only thing you are doing is a mandatory test to enter the store - which they were going to do anyways.

    Not purely scientific, but a lot better than assuming everyone has covid and can spread it. Which seems to be working not so well. At the very least, you have a much truer level of ‘random’ testing, and a more educated guess of how many are out and about when they shouldn’t be.

    The real problem is not finding ways to leverage what we can. There didn’t seem to be a shortage of people willing to sign up for vaccine trials......

     

     

  • Greg Edwards-268690 wrote:

    Since they can ‘mandate’, testing could be done for some of the answers by having everyone going into a Costco. They will shop there anyways. Some are bound to have covid. Follow up will show who it may have spread to. You can note what type of mask they had. Not like you are forcing them to be exposed, but much could be gathered. The only thing you are doing is a mandatory test to enter the store - which they were going to do anyways.

    Not purely scientific, but a lot better than assuming everyone has covid and can spread it. Which seems to be working not so well. At the very least, you have a much truer level of ‘random’ testing, and a more educated guess of how many are out and about when they shouldn’t be.

    The real problem is not finding ways to leverage what we can. There didn’t seem to be a shortage of people willing to sign up for vaccine trials......

    Well, not everyone, at least when it comes to Costco or Sam's Club. I don't have a membership for either of them. I also rarely shop at Walmart right now, just when I need something I can't get at King Soopers (Kroger) or Safeway (Albertsons).

     

  • about masks:

    I just seem to get the sense that this issue has been studied far beyond that. Maybe its just me reading studies about masks and covid19 as much as I have, I think the reasoning is like I said, when you weigh the costs and benefits, the potential benefits of universal mask wearing just outweighs the cost.

    So what I think has been done is to study the possibility of benefits to mask wearing in the case of covid19, and I gotta tell you, I'm not getting all this uncertainty about effectiveness from my reading compared to what I sense you are getting. I'm not saying that more tests aren't interesting, I'm saying that in my opinion, the guys who know about infectious disease have pretty much already returned a pretty darn good case.

    Now I know, all hail Gail Shaw for the "scientific method" thing. There is no doubt that the scientific method works when it works. The thing is, the threadisens of the world now seem to think that if you cannot apply the scientific method to a problem, then the problem cannot be addressed.

    What I think has happened with masks is that its been studied to pieces but apparently not to some absurd threshold that some folks feel it needs to be. Nothing short of a suitable sample size to be sprayed with inoculum is going to be good enough, especially with how this has been politicized, folks who cannot bear this loss of freedom have no end of friendly sources of "information" that they can use to validate their views.

    Heck when it comes down to masks, I don't even think its the discomfort or inconvenience, I think its because of again, politics.

    Now I gotta tell you, I think other folks have a point. SSC has a hard time with subjective topics like politics. The trouble is, we have folks that will turn anything into politics, including face masks, these folks are encroaching on all areas of science and I'm not so sure that their resumes are up to the task. So this also means for me that science should be a little off topic here too, because I have a feeling that this site isn't up to it.

    I gotta tell you, I've always been offended by bad science. So how about along with the prohibition on politics, we consider one on science too? Hey, I'm just asking 🙂

     

  • Costco was just an example. Could be any ‘type’ of establishment. It was to show you could gather information, with out have to ‘intentionally’ put any given number of covid positives into a situation to gather something upstream.

    Right now, if they are doing any contact tracing it is days late, and who knows how accurate.

    You get part of the story much more up front. Imagine if lines at a grocery store are part of the problem. You are masked, 6 feet apart, but can be in a constant state of moving into the next occupied spot. The assumption is this is fine, and we ignore grocery stores and other retail environments. Time to start actually see if numbers really back this up.

    Our sudden spread out state seemed to track with hunting season. If they were really doing contact tracing, it would have been interesting to have seen if there was any correlation. Many hunters go to the bar, and rural sees no need for masks. The only data point available - your home zip code - means very little. Thought if they were doing this right, they should also have a where you likely got it too.

    Go to the Traverse City Michigan website for covid. They list a weekly report for covid tracing results.

    If I visited, and got a covid positive test there, it would get tagged back to a different state. Kind of a move the cheese number.

    We have something with a 3 to 14 day incubation period, with testing for most voluntary, and after the fact. Many will show little to no symptoms. Seems you have the old Bob Ross brush to paint your picture. Hard to believe this is called Follow The Science.

  • The real main problem is that in America and Europe everyone is so f****g smart!

    everyone knows everything about viruses, and about corona viruses in particular. Everyone knows everything about masks and how do they work with that particular strain of coronavirus.

    Everybody is bloody top level virusologis, epidemiologist, psychologist, sociologist, best governor, not to mention football coach.

    To the point when they present perfect illustration to the point made in the movie "Idiocracy".

    I watched Chinese people here in New Zealand through this pandemic crisis. When some odd virus started spreading in China, when NZ goverment did not have a clue on this matter, not a single case registered here yet, Chinese all put masks on. All arrivals from China were locked in back rooms of their houses, with family members taking care of feeding and supplying them while minimising any possibility of virus transfer. Because that was for their families.

    And now, when we have almost all the restriction lifted, every staff member in Chinese shops wears a mask. And if someone will try to be smarter than others - the punishment will be quick and effective.

    And there is no power of suppressive Chinese government here in NZ, no influence from totalitarian Chinese communist party. Just sense of community and following the lead of the elderly.

    So, just surrender to the fact, that even after watching 50 very convincing videos on YouTube you're nowhere near year 3 student of a medical university when it comes to viruses. Listen to professionals, not influencers.

  • The baffling thing to me is why are these amazing conspiracy theories so believable, and spread so fast, when the simple answers are staring people in the face? Occam's Razor.

    Trump's playbook has been used before, although he has taken it to a much higher level. In the 40's and 50's Joe McCarthy used the lie, lie again, and deflect strategy to, in most cases, falsely accuse Americans of Communism.

    The common thread between McCarthy and Trump was Roy Cohn.

    This strategy has become the norm worldwide.  And people fall for it day after day.

    Michael L John
    If you assassinate a DBA, would you pull a trigger?
    To properly post on a forum:
    http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/61537/

  • First, I welcome the discussion in a respectful manner. I know we will all disagree about different things, but please be respectful as if we were friends in the same room with each other.

    I don't know that I think this debate needs a separate thread, but if anyone feels strongly, I'd ask others just create another thread in this same forum, otherwise, I don't mind it continuing here.

     

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