February 26, 2019 at 8:40 am
Jeff Moden - Tuesday, February 26, 2019 6:03 AMThanks, folks. I really appreciate the condolences and well wishes. You've gotta love this community. You're all like a second family.
So sorry for your loss Jeff. Strength and healing.
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February 27, 2019 at 3:12 am
In other news...
I see Hugo made it to the end of his 24 hr Pool marathon. Congrats Hugo.
In the UK today we have the second day of the MS Ignite roadshow in London - sadly missed out on a ticket.
Anyone there, enjoy.
And the first day of SQL Bits up in a very sunny Manchester! Its training days / pre cons (depending on your dialect) today and tomorrow for those who don't know.
Anyone there, also enjoy!
With all that going on, lets hope the UK SQL skeleton crew have a quiet week...
As for me...
My last day in the office, for this week. So not so much of a hump day! Then I'm off up north to Manchester for a bit of sight seeing on Thursday and of course the evening quiz, then 2 days (well 1/12 days) of SQL Bits.
Then I'm off to the Classic Rock Society Awards show in a quaint little town called Wath Upon Dearne. Its North East, near Rotherham, so another nice drive for me from Manchester. And hopefully a chance to give the new camera and zoom lens a good workout!
Rodders...
February 27, 2019 at 4:31 am
I'm sorry for your loss, Jeff. You, your brother, and his wife have my condolences. Being caretaker for a loved one is one of the hardest jobs there is. I hope your brother and his wife are getting the additional support they need to get past this. And you know if you need anything, you just need to ask us.
February 27, 2019 at 4:33 am
Brandie Tarvin - Wednesday, February 27, 2019 4:31 AMI'm sorry for your loss, Jeff. You, your brother, and his wife have my condolences. Being caretaker for a loved one is one of the hardest jobs there is. I hope your brother and his wife are getting the additional support they need to get past this. And you know if you need anything, you just need to ask us.
And my condolences your loss also, Lynn. Again, if you need anything, just ask us.
February 27, 2019 at 4:40 am
Grant Fritchey - Sunday, February 10, 2019 6:02 AMSteve Jones - SSC Editor - Saturday, February 9, 2019 6:59 PMI'm a little torn on this.There was an agreement to provide a gift card from the web, which is a business transaction. Fulfilling this is a business purpose and the common way to do this is send a GC to an email. I don't know any company that collects GCs themselves and sends them out. They would outsource this to the vendor.Let's twist this. A company agrees to send you a book. They then send your email to a third party that fulfills shipments, like FedEx. Do you consider that a GDPR violation if your address is shared? I'm not sure that makes sense.
I would argue that this is perhaps annoying or disliked, but the sharing of the email for the gift is not a GDPR violation. I'd also argue that Amazon has the right to contact you about the GC, since until you redeem it, they may have an accounting liability here. Perhaps there is some argument about how much they can contact you, or if they include other info, but there is some business relationship here.
Tell me why I'm wrong.
All reasonable, but what's not there is the explanation from the people handling your data that they will be sending your information to Amazon. The definition of what is done with your personal information is part of the GDPR and I think that's where the violation comes in. Not the sharing itself. You've explained exactly why that's a normal process and no arguments.
Since when is an email address PII? Even associated with a name, how is this PII?
An email address is just that, an address with which one corresponds with another. Technically they are public, even if there is no explicit directory of them. Now, I'm not saying this doesn't violate GPDR. I'm sure it does. But the comment that it's PII? That seems a stretch to me.
February 27, 2019 at 5:31 am
Brandie Tarvin - Wednesday, February 27, 2019 4:40 AMSince when is an email address PII? Even associated with a name, how is this PII?
An email address is just that, an address with which one corresponds with another. Technically they are public, even if there is no explicit directory of them. Now, I'm not saying this doesn't violate GPDR. I'm sure it does. But the comment that it's PII? That seems a stretch to me.
It seems like it has become PII depending on how and where it is used. It's kind of like how someone's street address has become PII depending on the same things. Sometimes it boils down to who squawks about what but the real key is don't give out info about your customers unless you have specific permission about specific data. I can see email addresses being PII because of the thing known as SPAM.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
February 27, 2019 at 5:54 am
Jeff Moden - Monday, February 25, 2019 12:16 PMMust be something in the air. My Mom died Friday. I've been ready for it for a couple of years and it's actually a blessing in disguise for the old gal... she was suffering pretty badly and her care took a seriously intense toll on my Brother and his wife (they did a remarkable job).
Sorry for your loss my friend, may she rest in peace.
Regards,
Eirikur
February 27, 2019 at 6:26 am
Jeff Moden - Wednesday, February 27, 2019 5:31 AMBrandie Tarvin - Wednesday, February 27, 2019 4:40 AMGrant Fritchey - Sunday, February 10, 2019 6:02 AMSteve Jones - SSC Editor - Saturday, February 9, 2019 6:59 PMI'm a little torn on this.There was an agreement to provide a gift card from the web, which is a business transaction. Fulfilling this is a business purpose and the common way to do this is send a GC to an email. I don't know any company that collects GCs themselves and sends them out. They would outsource this to the vendor.Let's twist this. A company agrees to send you a book. They then send your email to a third party that fulfills shipments, like FedEx. Do you consider that a GDPR violation if your address is shared? I'm not sure that makes sense.
I would argue that this is perhaps annoying or disliked, but the sharing of the email for the gift is not a GDPR violation. I'd also argue that Amazon has the right to contact you about the GC, since until you redeem it, they may have an accounting liability here. Perhaps there is some argument about how much they can contact you, or if they include other info, but there is some business relationship here.
Tell me why I'm wrong.
All reasonable, but what's not there is the explanation from the people handling your data that they will be sending your information to Amazon. The definition of what is done with your personal information is part of the GDPR and I think that's where the violation comes in. Not the sharing itself. You've explained exactly why that's a normal process and no arguments.
Since when is an email address PII? Even associated with a name, how is this PII?
An email address is just that, an address with which one corresponds with another. Technically they are public, even if there is no explicit directory of them. Now, I'm not saying this doesn't violate GPDR. I'm sure it does. But the comment that it's PII? That seems a stretch to me.
It seems like it has become PII depending on how and where it is used. It's kind of like how someone's street address has become PII depending on the same things. Sometimes it boils down to who squawks about what but the real key is don't give out info about your customers unless you have specific permission about specific data. I can see email addresses being PII because of the thing known as SPAM.
Considering how much personal information is directly linked to an email address now adays(bank accounts, bills, legal documents, how any places use email as the login name) I would certainly consider it PII
February 27, 2019 at 8:01 am
Eirikur Eiriksson - Wednesday, February 27, 2019 5:54 AMJeff Moden - Monday, February 25, 2019 12:16 PMMust be something in the air. My Mom died Friday. I've been ready for it for a couple of years and it's actually a blessing in disguise for the old gal... she was suffering pretty badly and her care took a seriously intense toll on my Brother and his wife (they did a remarkable job).Sorry for your loss my friend, may she rest in peace.
Regards,
Eirikur
Thanks, Eirikur.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
February 27, 2019 at 8:03 am
ZZartin - Wednesday, February 27, 2019 6:26 AMJeff Moden - Wednesday, February 27, 2019 5:31 AMBrandie Tarvin - Wednesday, February 27, 2019 4:40 AMGrant Fritchey - Sunday, February 10, 2019 6:02 AMSteve Jones - SSC Editor - Saturday, February 9, 2019 6:59 PMI'm a little torn on this.There was an agreement to provide a gift card from the web, which is a business transaction. Fulfilling this is a business purpose and the common way to do this is send a GC to an email. I don't know any company that collects GCs themselves and sends them out. They would outsource this to the vendor.Let's twist this. A company agrees to send you a book. They then send your email to a third party that fulfills shipments, like FedEx. Do you consider that a GDPR violation if your address is shared? I'm not sure that makes sense.
I would argue that this is perhaps annoying or disliked, but the sharing of the email for the gift is not a GDPR violation. I'd also argue that Amazon has the right to contact you about the GC, since until you redeem it, they may have an accounting liability here. Perhaps there is some argument about how much they can contact you, or if they include other info, but there is some business relationship here.
Tell me why I'm wrong.
All reasonable, but what's not there is the explanation from the people handling your data that they will be sending your information to Amazon. The definition of what is done with your personal information is part of the GDPR and I think that's where the violation comes in. Not the sharing itself. You've explained exactly why that's a normal process and no arguments.
Since when is an email address PII? Even associated with a name, how is this PII?
An email address is just that, an address with which one corresponds with another. Technically they are public, even if there is no explicit directory of them. Now, I'm not saying this doesn't violate GPDR. I'm sure it does. But the comment that it's PII? That seems a stretch to me.
It seems like it has become PII depending on how and where it is used. It's kind of like how someone's street address has become PII depending on the same things. Sometimes it boils down to who squawks about what but the real key is don't give out info about your customers unless you have specific permission about specific data. I can see email addresses being PII because of the thing known as SPAM.
Considering how much personal information is directly linked to an email address now adays(bank accounts, bills, legal documents, how any places use email as the login name) I would certainly consider it PII
Ditto that.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
February 27, 2019 at 9:03 am
Jeff Moden - Monday, February 25, 2019 12:16 PMMust be something in the air. My Mom died Friday. I've been ready for it for a couple of years and it's actually a blessing in disguise for the old gal... she was suffering pretty badly and her care took a seriously intense toll on my Brother and his wife (they did a remarkable job).
My heartfelt condolences my ol' friend.
Everyone must leave something behind when they die.
A child or a book or a painting or a house or a wall built or a pair of shoes made. Or a garden planted.
Something your hand touched some way so your soul has somewhere to go when you die, and when people look
at that tree or that flower you planted, you’re there.
It doesn’t matter what you do, he said, so as long as you change something from the way it was before
you touched it into something that’s like you after you take your hands away.
Fahrenheit 451 - Ray Bradbury
Far away is close at hand in the images of elsewhere.
Anon.
February 27, 2019 at 9:12 am
Jeff Moden - Monday, February 25, 2019 12:16 PMMust be something in the air. My Mom died Friday. I've been ready for it for a couple of years and it's actually a blessing in disguise for the old gal... she was suffering pretty badly and her care took a seriously intense toll on my Brother and his wife (they did a remarkable job).
Condolences, both for the death and for the two years of bad suffering
Tom
February 27, 2019 at 9:25 am
Brandie Tarvin - Wednesday, February 27, 2019 4:40 AMSince when is an email address PII? Even associated with a name, how is this PII?
An email address is just that, an address with which one corresponds with another. Technically they are public, even if there is no explicit directory of them. Now, I'm not saying this doesn't violate GPDR. I'm sure it does. But the comment that it's PII? That seems a stretch to me.
As a formal matter of law it's been PII ever since EU law stated clearly that it is to be treated as personally identifiable information (quite a long time ago). As a matter of fact, it was PII for many purposes even before that - if someone had it, he could send email to its owner, which was an action which could adversely affect the owner (for example if the person who got hold of it was a clever crook or a massive spammer or both, and if a piece of information allows someone to be adversely affected than that piece is clearly personally identifiable, so companies were expected not to broadcase people's email addresses, and judgements were made confirming that before it became a statement included in the the text of European data protection regulations (long before GDPR). And even more so since last May, of course, when GDPR finally came into full force.
Tom
February 27, 2019 at 10:36 am
Jeff Moden - Wednesday, February 27, 2019 8:03 AMDitto that.
We've treated it as PII pretty-much forever. Sure, it's linked to a myriad of accounts and can be used as a username in many systems. The bottom line for us, however, is that it can be used to identify a person. It isn't even indirect that has to be combined with other data to narrow down the possibilities. It directly identifies a person, so we treat it like any other PII. It's been a thing in our industry since way before GDPR.
February 27, 2019 at 1:39 pm
Ed Wagner - Wednesday, February 27, 2019 10:36 AMJeff Moden - Wednesday, February 27, 2019 8:03 AMDitto that.
We've treated it as PII pretty-much forever. Sure, it's linked to a myriad of accounts and can be used as a username in many systems. The bottom line for us, however, is that it can be used to identify a person. It isn't even indirect that has to be combined with other data to narrow down the possibilities. It directly identifies a person, so we treat it like any other PII. It's been a thing in our industry since way before GDPR.
I've always done the same... at first, it was to protect people from spammers. Now it's because it has become essential to protect people from a whole lot more.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
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