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Who wants to be a SQL Server DBA?


Who wants to be a SQL Server DBA?

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edu-dba
edu-dba
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I'm definitely not saying the piece of paper is a yes or no for hiring someone. Without the degree I look for an equivalent 4 years of experience. My big concern is when I see a DBA that has only ever had 1 job with no related degree and no certifications/coursework listed. I have to wonder how did they learn SQL Server? Trial and error is a good teacher - but not on my production boxes! And trial and error will take much longer to learn good practices.
So if you don't have a degree put a section in Training or Coursework and explain how you learned your crafts - don't make me have to guess.
rhat
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In six years, I've used them twice, and both times I had time (a minute or two) to look them up first and make sure I was using them correctly. I'd much rather memorize things I'll use constantly (the table names, for example), and things I'll use regularly (string and date functions, for example), than things I'll use twice in six years (DBCC commands). (Of course, I use DBCC commands all the time, but I use them by clicking buttons and right-click menues in management studio, etc., not by typing them out myself.)

As for losing 19 hours of data because of restoring to a last-known-good-point instead of using esoteric database commands to try to fix something, whoever thinks those are the only two options is to stay away from my databases. Far away! Please, go work for my competitors. They need you!


OK, you said it yourself, you used DBCC command 2 times in the last 6 years. Now, another thing, I don't which buttons you are clicking in management studio and how many times you use them, but I for one don't even have to do that "all the time". Why, cause my DB's are designed right. The point is to "minimize" management to begin with.

Second, if your last company went out of "business" it would seem like they could have used someone else than those who worked there.

And By the way, and not you, most BLUE CHIP companies, have some of the "slowest" DB systems even with all the money, expertise, tech, etc. Case in point, Cell Phone companies websites have been incredilble slow, not to mention, always DOWN. Ever go to there store and the person at the counter says, Sorry, you have to come back later, OUR COMPUTER IS DOWN.

Look at the FBI, virtual case file project!!! That is a massive IT project that's a complete and utter failure. It's been in the news and called in Congress and STILL after several revamps, reviews, changes, it's still NOT up. They must have lots of DBA's there that know DBCC and lots of these dumb so-called "db best practices" HA! HA! HA!

When more than 70% of the IT projects there fail, there need to be more communication.....it called communicating the BRUTAL TRUTH!!!
Anders Pedersen
Anders Pedersen
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Man I want to work where Rhat works! Imagine the utopia of perfectly designed databases, servers, hardware. Never had to figure out why you suddenly are starting to see corruption in data? hmm restore and 2 hours later you have corruption again?

oh look at this, this DEC Alpha box is suddenly corrupting the data. ok fine do a restore to the last known good backup. Dang it, now it is corrupt again. This one happened to me, no amount of immediate restores would have fixed your problem. Tell me Rhat, how would you fix it? Restore to an Intel box? Try again, won't work (another good interview question back in the day, why can you not restore it?).

Never had to check your inputbuffer or outputbuffer? Application hangs for no reason, what you do? Restore?? Sorry, but even the best designed system can at some point or another hit the wall when it comes to performance.

Many of the places I have worked the time it would take to do a restore would be a lot longer than me spending half an hour on research into the problem. Not to mention that half an hour of research usualy leas to me knowing enough to redo whatever made it happen in the first plave not to happen again. With your approach you would never solve your problem permanently.

And yes interpseonal skills are almost as important as your SQL skills.
noeld
noeld
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rhat (10/16/2007)
In six years, I've used them twice, and both times I had time (a minute or two) to look them up first and make sure I was using them correctly. I'd much rather memorize things I'll use constantly (the table names, for example), and things I'll use regularly (string and date functions, for example), than things I'll use twice in six years (DBCC commands). (Of course, I use DBCC commands all the time, but I use them by clicking buttons and right-click menues in management studio, etc., not by typing them out myself.)

As for losing 19 hours of data because of restoring to a last-known-good-point instead of using esoteric database commands to try to fix something, whoever thinks those are the only two options is to stay away from my databases. Far away! Please, go work for my competitors. They need you!


OK, you said it yourself, you used DBCC command 2 times in the last 6 years. Now, another thing, I don't which buttons you are clicking in management studio and how many times you use them, but I for one don't even have to do that "all the time". Why, cause my DB's are designed right. The point is to "minimize" management to begin with.

Second, if your last company went out of "business" it would seem like they could have used someone else than those who worked there.

And By the way, and not you, most BLUE CHIP companies, have some of the "slowest" DB systems even with all the money, expertise, tech, etc. Case in point, Cell Phone companies websites have been incredilble slow, not to mention, always DOWN. Ever go to there store and the person at the counter says, Sorry, you have to come back later, OUR COMPUTER IS DOWN.

Look at the FBI, virtual case file project!!! That is a massive IT project that's a complete and utter failure. It's been in the news and called in Congress and STILL after several revamps, reviews, changes, it's still NOT up. They must have lots of DBA's there that know DBCC and lots of these dumb so-called "db best practices" HA! HA! HA!

When more than 70% of the IT projects there fail, there need to be more communication.....it called communicating the BRUTAL TRUTH!!!


Honestly,

You have displayed a mirriad of "BASIC" problems that would never ever get you in my company.
I would advice you to actually check yourself a bit because many of your statements are not only wrong but also include a total lack of personal skills. If you are a "DBA" you seriously need to get traning really fast.

Good luck,


* Noel
rhat
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You have displayed a mirriad of "BASIC" problems that would never ever get you in my company.
I would advice you to actually check yourself a bit because many of your statements are not only wrong but also include a total lack of personal skills. If you are a "DBA" you seriously need to get traning really fast.
Good luck,



Seems like the companies that go "bankrupt", such as the one you previously mentioned, are the ones I want to avoid in the first place.

Believe me, I don't want to be in your company as it sounds like more "personal skills" are needed there (i.e. don't say anything negative to hurt anyone's feeling, but it's OK that the company goes bankrupt, just as long as we don't question what's wrong.)

I can just tell that this "personal skills" requirement is what happened with the contractors that hired to build the FBI's virtual case file....and maybe, Enron and Aurthur Anderson. and what about those credit card companies that lose the personal data, or JetBlue reservation system that couldn't handle surge in traffic from a snow storm pileup.....Well, there is certainly not enough room to name even a few of those I.T. failures, BUT as you can see, that 70% I.T. failure rate is pretty low, IMO.

Some people just have to learn the hard way, if that.
colin.Leversuch-Roberts
colin.Leversuch-Roberts
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I'd hate this to end up as a slanging match but the main reason many systems work poorly is the apalling design and implementation of third party applications - usually the more expensive it is the worse it is - and because it's expensive big companies have to buy them. If we can train developers properly to understand set theory and database technology we might have better applications. But it keeps me in work as I spend most of my time tuning poorly performing systems.
Just to throw a spanner into the dbcc arena - you must use some dbcc commands otherwise you cannot check the integrity of your database and up to sql 2005 there were some excellent dbcc commands used to diagnose performance issues , umsstats, memstatus, traceon, opentran to mention a few - so if you've never used a dbcc command you're unlikely to be the type of DBA I'd employ - course if you're just a button pushing DBA who never strays beyond the GUI then you'll likely not understand what I'm writing - and this is part of the problem I think - the job title of DBA has become diluted with not any sensible way to differentiate from the developer who's looked after a single server in a small company to a person who manages several hundred 24x7 a "always on" systems along with DR, BCP etc. etc.

The GrumpyOldDBA
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http://sqlblogcasts.com/blogs/grumpyolddba/
Raymond Pe
Raymond Pe
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Jack Corbett (10/15/2007)
I enjoyed reading the article as I use articles like this to help me determine what SQL Server skills I am missing that I should have. I also think this article relates to the recent editorial, The General. SQL Server has become so complex that it is difficult to answer all the questions about DBCC commands, etc.. and know all about Windows clustering, RAID, etc.. The tools for SQL Server have gotten better also, so you can maintain a SQL Server without using DBCC commands directly. When I am in an interview I am upfront that there is more I don't know about SQL Server than I do know, but I know where to go to find the answers I need to a problem, whether BOL, google, or SSC. I can do the Day to tasks security, backups, restores, etc.. and in 8 years of working with SQL Server I have never had to do a point in time restore and have only once had to restore a failed server. It was a long night, but no data was lost because we had a good backup plan in place. If I were hiring a DBA, or any IT staff, the first thing I want to see is someone who know they don't know it all, but know where to go to find the answer. Just don't use QotD in the interview. Why would I know that stored procedures can accept up to 2100 parameters!w00t


I agree totally. I have been a DB2 Applications DBA and a SQL Server DBA for 7 years now and there is just so much stuff that it can get a bit intimidating sometimes ( CLR hosting, SSAS. SSIS, SSRS, SMO programming, SQLCmd vs. OSQL) to mention a few. How often is one going to be involved in setting-up a cluster, or perform database mirroring? What drives all this in the real world is the kind of business, the structure of the organization, the budget and the extent of data currency that the client can live with in a true disaster. This is often defined in your SLA with the client. Not all applications require immediate failover. In large corporations, with a myriad of centralized and renegade applications, that is just not feasible. A true DBA will make the best of any situation. In a perfect world, third party products should support Windows authentication and support multiple SQL instances but that is not always the case. To my mind, the ultimate interview question for a DBA would be : given this environment, and this problem, how would you go about finding a solution?
Alex Rosa
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Hello,

I've been working in IT since 1993 and as a SQL Server DBA since 2001.
I got my first Microsoft Certification in 2002, MCDBA in 2004, MCTS SQL2k5 in 2006, and so on. But I agree that certifications is not enough.
I am recognized as a Senior DBA in my region (Brazil, São Paulo), but I don't think so, because I know that I need to learn more and get real experience about clustering, SAN, etc.

I want to be recognized as a true DBA and not just a tourist. Professionals that have been done just basics tasks are only surviving, and we need to looking for our evolution as a DBA, developers, System Administrators, and so on.

---------------------
Alex Rosa
http://www.keep-learning.com/blog
randy.witt
randy.witt
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Greetings,

This has been an interesting read for me, as I am a newcomer to SQL Server (1 year), having been an application developer for database-centric applications with my company since 1994. It appears that there definitely are different perspectives on what a "DBA" is. Some seem to focus primarily on the pure "admin" stuff - installation, configuration, backup/restore, performance, security, etc., and asking rather specific questions on interviewees on those topics. Some include using SSIS, SSRS, SSAS. A few mentioned database design, normalization, stored procedures, views, etc.

I can understand that in an organization that primarily uses purchased software, that a "DBA" would be basically focused on what I listed as the admin stuff, with possibly some SSIS, etc. to interconnect data between software systems. In organizations that do application/database development in-house, the "admin" stuff is important, but there is also more need for database design skills. What you can do with SQL Server is so broad, that I am thinking that few companies use it to its full potential (probably b/c they don't need to.) The types of questions asked or skills focused on in interviewing candidates, also should vary based on what the company actually does with SQL Server.

In our company, I am being phased in to be our first full-time DBA, but the admin stuff is only a portion of what I do. I would not (at least currently) get some of the listed interview questions right (without a few minutes to look up the answers on the web.) I would not be the best candidate for those looking for a DBA to fully administer SQL Servers running only packaged software.

But, I do think my role fully qualifies as a DBA. My focus areas in SQL Server are simply balanced differently. I am doing the admin tasks - but since we have a systems adminstrator, our roles overlap. For instance, I have defined the setup configurations that will be used for all of our SQL Server installations, while our system administrator sets up the virtual servers, installs the software and guarantees the server environment. I schedule backups, but primarily so that the systems adminstrator has an offline database copy to backup as part of his overall system backups (which includes user documents and files, e-mail systems, etc.) We both monitor various aspects of performance, activity, and error logging. I oversee several SQL Servers on which packaged software is running.

However, much of my time is spent on database design and development. This aspect of SQL Server didn't seem adequately represented in the discussion. We write in-house a significant portion of the software used by our company. I develop the database design, make sure it's all normalized properly, set up the databases, tables, indexes, and relationships. I construct the SSIS packages to properly import data from our existing non-SQL Server data files. I construct the stored procedures and views by which the application developers and users will access the database, and set up the database roles for such access. I also develop the Visual FoxPro or .NET interfaces to simplify developers' access to the stored procedures. I write the SSIS tasks to perform nightly data posts, generate reports, etc. Understanding the data and overseeing the accuracy of what comes out or goes into the database, is a big part of what I do.

But, as of yet, I don't do anything with SSAS, I don't even know much about it. I don't yet do replication, I don't do log shipping or have mirrored databases. I haven't explored Notification Services or Service Broker. I am learning, but I'll probably never use some of SQL Server's features. SQL Server is BIG!

So, what am I saying? I guess, that "DBA" can encompass a lot of things, with varying aspects being more or less important, depending on the structure of your IT department and what exactly SQL Server is used for within your company. Although admin functions are vital, I wanted to flesh out some of the other aspects that can also be important.

Best wishes,
Randy
bnordberg
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SQL server has become such a robust compliment of tools that it is hard to say exactly what a SQL server DBA really is. I don't think the author was denying that, but simply stating that before posting, employers should assess their needs - and determine the type of DBA they need.
I've recently been pushed to my max trying to develop an ETL process in SSIS. And I'm realizing that SSIS could be a speciality by itself - you could hire an ETL DBA that may never run a backup script - ever! Same goes for SSAS, SSRS ... But I think the point still stands that employers try too hard to find the perfect jack of all trades. I saw a DBA posting today asking for 5 yrs of Exchange administration, web programming, VLAN admin, IDS, C#... If you hired a DBA and set them to do hefty Exchange administration and intrusion detection, their DBA skills would deteriorate within a year as they are forced to implement email filters...



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