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What are you worth?


What are you worth?

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djackson 22568
djackson 22568
Ten Centuries
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One of my favorite employers was a small family owned business. I worked for the president, although his two brothers had a great deal of influence on my career.

I joined the company at a low rate of pay due to my previous position. After six months I was promoted to the role I wanted. I had a talk with the president and explained what I expected to be making. When he responded that nobody was paid that much, I said I understood, but I expected them to make it happen in the next 3-5 years.

Three years later I was paid in excess of my goal.

However, larger employers I have worked for simply don't allocate sufficient resources to identify talent. I have been far less successful obtaining a fair salary at those employers. This has affected my co-workers as well, both the stars and those who can't tie their shoes. The stars at large companies don't usually get paid fairly. Others have learned they can slide by and make as much as everyone else.

Steve is right that you need to ask for what you deserve. However if you don't get it immediately, don't give up. Show them what you can do, and you might see improvement. If not, you might have the option to look elsewhere.

Dave
Rod
Rod
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OK, I'll drop the "accidental DBA" moniker from my public speaking; I'll just use it here on these forums.

What recruiters have people had the best experience with? I ask because now that I'm putting myself out there, I'm getting a lot of responses from recruiters, with things that are just 6 months contracts in the mid-west somewhere. I've got nothing against the mid-west, but I live in the southwest and don't like the idea of being so far from my family. I believe my wife needs me nearby, to help with the responsibilities of our life. Bottom line is, most recruiters contacting me these days tend to just offer 1 job, always a short term contract job, and then I don't hear from them ever again. That doesn't seem to me to be a recruiter, at least not working for me. They're working for the company they've contracted with to fill positions fast.

Rod
Eric M Russell
Eric M Russell
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Doctor Who 2 (5/19/2014)
OK, I'll drop the "accidental DBA" moniker from my public speaking; I'll just use it here on these forums.

What recruiters have people had the best experience with? I ask because now that I'm putting myself out there, I'm getting a lot of responses from recruiters, with things that are just 6 months contracts in the mid-west somewhere. I've got nothing against the mid-west, but I live in the southwest and don't like the idea of being so far from my family. I believe my wife needs me nearby, to help with the responsibilities of our life. Bottom line is, most recruiters contacting me these days tend to just offer 1 job, always a short term contract job, and then I don't hear from them ever again. That doesn't seem to me to be a recruiter, at least not working for me. They're working for the company they've contracted with to fill positions fast.

Yes, the recruiters who contact you directly are totally working for the employer, and you're not going to get a straight answer from them about how much you're worth in the market. They're trying to fill a position and make the best deal possible for their client.

If you're looking for career counseling, wanting honest advice on how much you're worth and finding a job closer to home, then you need to flip that relationship around by hiring them. Really, there are plenty of permanent or long term contracting positions in the southwest.


"The universe is complicated and for the most part beyond your control, but your life is only as complicated as you choose it to be."
Rod
Rod
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This is the second time, in this thread, that the idea of hiring a recruiter has come up. (It may have been you, Eric, that brought it up before, can't remember.) At first I thought it was a mistake. Now I realize it isn't. I've never heard of hiring a recruiter to help one find a job. How is that done?

Rod
Steve Jones
Steve Jones
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Doctor Who 2 (5/19/2014)
This is the second time, in this thread, that the idea of hiring a recruiter has come up. (It may have been you, Eric, that brought it up before, can't remember.) At first I thought it was a mistake. Now I realize it isn't. I've never heard of hiring a recruiter to help one find a job. How is that done?


In the US, just look for companies that do placement in your area. No need to contract with them, and there isn't any hiring. they are paid by the company when they place someone.

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Eric M Russell
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Doctor Who 2 (5/19/2014)
This is the second time, in this thread, that the idea of hiring a recruiter has come up. (It may have been you, Eric, that brought it up before, can't remember.) At first I thought it was a mistake. Now I realize it isn't. I've never heard of hiring a recruiter to help one find a job. How is that done?

What I'm specifcally talking about is more like a "career coach". You need to have to know who you are and what you want for a recruiter to be helpful.
http://blogs.wsj.com/laidoff/2009/05/28/is-a-career-coach-really-worth-the-investment/
http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2012/11/06/career-coaches-benefits/
There are a lot of companies, some of the best ones, that only hire through recruiters, so you'll need to work with them eventually, even if you initially start out just talking
with a career coach who can help you define where you are and where you want to be. Over the years, there have been handful of recruiters who have provided constructive feedback and advice, even if our relationship didn't lead to a job at the time. That's a handful out of the hundred or so that I've spoken with. You'll know the helpful ones when you meet them.


"The universe is complicated and for the most part beyond your control, but your life is only as complicated as you choose it to be."
call.copse
call.copse
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Aeterna (5/19/2014)
call.copse (5/19/2014)
Personally, whilst I may be a grumpy old sod, I do favour making friends with my fellow employees and getting to know people's salaries after a drink or two. Yes, it goes against terms, and I think an 'I'll show you mine if you show me yours' is the only approach. This means obviously trying to avoid such discussions with the type of person who will blab about the discussion. However such data is generally helpful when negotiating - and I would never say 'Oh, X gets Y so I should get Z' - simply to understand where you are standing and whether it seems reasonable with respect to your relative contribution.


On one occasion, the other DBA in the team left to become a contractor. Our job descriptions were identical, our skill sets very similar in terms of both range and experience. The vacancy for his job was advertised with a band that started at my salary and extended a further 10k, which was 6k higher than my supposed salary band. It took a lot of commentary/negotiation on my part to get another 2k on my salary at that point. The person they eventually recruited didn't have my skills/expertise. Needless to say, the whole episode informed my subsequent relationship with that company.


I hope that serves my point - that if the news is the company are treating you like a mug you want to know about it. If they estimate the market pays more but they will not pay you more (despite you having much specific knowledge) then obviously that is the time to go to the market.
anna.ellis@getronics.com
anna.ellis@getronics.com
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call.copse (5/20/2014)
Aeterna (5/19/2014)
call.copse (5/19/2014)
Personally, whilst I may be a grumpy old sod, I do favour making friends with my fellow employees and getting to know people's salaries after a drink or two. Yes, it goes against terms, and I think an 'I'll show you mine if you show me yours' is the only approach. This means obviously trying to avoid such discussions with the type of person who will blab about the discussion. However such data is generally helpful when negotiating - and I would never say 'Oh, X gets Y so I should get Z' - simply to understand where you are standing and whether it seems reasonable with respect to your relative contribution.


On one occasion, the other DBA in the team left to become a contractor. Our job descriptions were identical, our skill sets very similar in terms of both range and experience. The vacancy for his job was advertised with a band that started at my salary and extended a further 10k, which was 6k higher than my supposed salary band. It took a lot of commentary/negotiation on my part to get another 2k on my salary at that point. The person they eventually recruited didn't have my skills/expertise. Needless to say, the whole episode informed my subsequent relationship with that company.


I hope that serves my point - that if the news is the company are treating you like a mug you want to know about it. If they estimate the market pays more but they will not pay you more (despite you having much specific knowledge) then obviously that is the time to go to the market.


I omitted how I found out about the vacancy's salary range - an agency I'd dealt with before, and which I trusted, phoned me to let me know there was a vacancy in my area that ideally matched my CV and paid well... Hehe

Mind you, the eventual exit interview was fun. :-P
Rod
Rod
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Eric M Russell (5/19/2014)
Doctor Who 2 (5/19/2014)
This is the second time, in this thread, that the idea of hiring a recruiter has come up. (It may have been you, Eric, that brought it up before, can't remember.) At first I thought it was a mistake. Now I realize it isn't. I've never heard of hiring a recruiter to help one find a job. How is that done?

What I'm specifcally talking about is more like a "career coach". You need to have to know who you are and what you want for a recruiter to be helpful.
http://blogs.wsj.com/laidoff/2009/05/28/is-a-career-coach-really-worth-the-investment/
http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2012/11/06/career-coaches-benefits/
There are a lot of companies, some of the best ones, that only hire through recruiters, so you'll need to work with them eventually, even if you initially start out just talking
with a career coach who can help you define where you are and where you want to be. Over the years, there have been handful of recruiters who have provided constructive feedback and advice, even if our relationship didn't lead to a job at the time. That's a handful out of the hundred or so that I've spoken with. You'll know the helpful ones when you meet them.


Oh. Thank you for clarifying. Not too long ago I looked up career coaches in New Mexico, but there weren't any. Well, none in the technical field. There are some here for upper management, VP and CEO types.

Rod
Rod
Rod
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Steve Jones - SSC Editor (5/19/2014)
Doctor Who 2 (5/19/2014)
This is the second time, in this thread, that the idea of hiring a recruiter has come up. (It may have been you, Eric, that brought it up before, can't remember.) At first I thought it was a mistake. Now I realize it isn't. I've never heard of hiring a recruiter to help one find a job. How is that done?


In the US, just look for companies that do placement in your area. No need to contract with them, and there isn't any hiring. they are paid by the company when they place someone.


Steve, do you mean someone like Robert Half or Sabio Systems?

Rod
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