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Better Training


Better Training

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Neil Burton
Neil Burton
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Gary Varga (5/13/2014)
BWFC (5/13/2014)
I've been lucky enough to land in the world of business intelligence with no prior experience other than asking my now colleagues if they could make or change reports to provide the business I was working in with more relevant information. This means that I'm constantly on the hunt for training, whether leading to Microsoft Certification or otherwise. I know that Gary has certainly provided me with some useful advice about UK based courses and finally the company has said that they'll pay for some formal training. The big question is of course, how much will they pay? Up to now though, short of some basic 'this is a SELECT statement', 'this is GROUP BY', at the beginning, I've taught myself. Every day I'm gaining valuable experience but I'd definitely like to have something on paper, whether it's a Microsoft cert, a college course or a company's proprietary BI certificate.

Corrected grammar


Have you seen https://www.coursera.org/course/db ?


I hadn't, that looks very good. It looks like the kind of course that although very informative, the company would be loath to pay for because the content is not massively relevant to what we do. I've signed myself up though because in my opinion you can't know enough. Thanks once again.

There's a couple of BI courses run in Manchester that my colleague and I have asked to go on. They've been passed up the ladder for authorisation so fingers crossed. The Cousera course is definitely one to do in my own time because we're so busy here.


On two occasions I have been asked, "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.
—Charles Babbage, Passages from the Life of a Philosopher

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Gary Varga
Gary Varga
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BWFC (5/13/2014)
Gary Varga (5/13/2014)
BWFC (5/13/2014)
I've been lucky enough to land in the world of business intelligence with no prior experience other than asking my now colleagues if they could make or change reports to provide the business I was working in with more relevant information. This means that I'm constantly on the hunt for training, whether leading to Microsoft Certification or otherwise. I know that Gary has certainly provided me with some useful advice about UK based courses and finally the company has said that they'll pay for some formal training. The big question is of course, how much will they pay? Up to now though, short of some basic 'this is a SELECT statement', 'this is GROUP BY', at the beginning, I've taught myself. Every day I'm gaining valuable experience but I'd definitely like to have something on paper, whether it's a Microsoft cert, a college course or a company's proprietary BI certificate.

Corrected grammar


Have you seen https://www.coursera.org/course/db ?


I hadn't, that looks very good. It looks like the kind of course that although very informative, the company would be loath to pay for because the content is not massively relevant to what we do. I've signed myself up though because in my opinion you can't know enough. Thanks once again.

There's a couple of BI courses run in Manchester that my colleague and I have asked to go on. They've been passed up the ladder for authorisation so fingers crossed. The Cousera course is definitely one to do in my own time because we're so busy here.


Time is a massive cost. Unfortunately, management often only see time out as that not as time invested i.e. a more knowledgeable worker will be more efficient so time training is recouped in the longer term.

Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
Neil Burton
Neil Burton
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Gary Varga (5/13/2014)
BWFC (5/13/2014)
Gary Varga (5/13/2014)
BWFC (5/13/2014)
I've been lucky enough to land in the world of business intelligence with no prior experience other than asking my now colleagues if they could make or change reports to provide the business I was working in with more relevant information. This means that I'm constantly on the hunt for training, whether leading to Microsoft Certification or otherwise. I know that Gary has certainly provided me with some useful advice about UK based courses and finally the company has said that they'll pay for some formal training. The big question is of course, how much will they pay? Up to now though, short of some basic 'this is a SELECT statement', 'this is GROUP BY', at the beginning, I've taught myself. Every day I'm gaining valuable experience but I'd definitely like to have something on paper, whether it's a Microsoft cert, a college course or a company's proprietary BI certificate.

Corrected grammar


Have you seen https://www.coursera.org/course/db ?



I hadn't, that looks very good. It looks like the kind of course that although very informative, the company would be loath to pay for because the content is not massively relevant to what we do. I've signed myself up though because in my opinion you can't know enough. Thanks once again.

There's a couple of BI courses run in Manchester that my colleague and I have asked to go on. They've been passed up the ladder for authorisation so fingers crossed. The Cousera course is definitely one to do in my own time because we're so busy here.


Time is a massive cost. Unfortunately, management often only see time out as that not as time invested i.e. a more knowledgeable worker will be more efficient so time training is recouped in the longer term.


I definitely agree, although we might be running out of longer term unfortunately. Given that, the company is very keen on keeping the people they've got and training is part of that retention plan. People, and I'm not just talking about myself, are probably more likely to stay with an organisation that's prepared to invest in them even though the future is uncertain and I think the company has realised that.


On two occasions I have been asked, "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.
—Charles Babbage, Passages from the Life of a Philosopher

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joe.eager
joe.eager
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I think there is a HUGE understanding of what Computer Science is (everywhere not here).

It is not supposed to be a training tool for IT, although it can be.

Computer Science is more the study of the algorithms, theories, and mathematics that make up computing. It is more related to Mathematics than any other discipline. This is what somebody should study if they want to know which sort algorithm is the best to use in certain situations, etc. Computer Science is not what somebody should study if they want practical hands on programming, web programming, etc.

The best degrees for people wanting to move into IT without the theory would be Information Systems or Information Technology Degrees.

Disclaimer: I studied computer science many many years ago vs IS.
Jack Corbett
  Jack Corbett
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This is something I've often thought about. Not having a degree in computer science, engineering, or math, I've found myself behind in theory which, at times, has led to my implementing less than optimal solutions. Of course, I've also worked with people who have the degree, but can't solve a business problem.

There's definitely a need to know theory and understand different algorithms (still a weakness of mine), but there definitely needs to be more real work as well. I'd love to see more of an apprenticeship model, where a morning may be spent in class learning theory and the afternoon working at a business along side a seasoned professional.



Jack Corbett

Applications Developer

Don't let the good be the enemy of the best. -- Paul Fleming
At best you can say that one job may be more secure than another, but total job security is an illusion. -- Rod at work

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LightVader
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I've a Computer Science degree. I did some practical stuff, but that really didn't transfer well to the business world. The school also had a lot of theory - algorithms, operating systems, low-level computing.

The one class that came closest to the real world was the seminar project, a single semester course where you developed and then presented a project. There are a few changes that I would suggest for this course: 1. Make the course longer. Two semesters at a minimum. So far I haven't been on any short projects. 2. Don't let the student select the topic. You don't get to define the requirements in the real world, why should you do it in school. 3. The professor should introduce, requirement changes, scope creep, etc. All the things that developers see during a project that aren't really mentioned in school.



The opinions expressed herein are strictly personal and do not necessarily reflect the views or policies of my employer.
Tobar
Tobar
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Gary Varga (5/13/2014)
PS Koen rocks!!!

We We! :-P

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david.gugg
david.gugg
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I earned a degree in math and very slowly grew my career into being the DBA I am today. I started out programming Excel using VBA, then moved into Access and simple .Net apps. I was very fortunate to have a ton of downtime in my first job (although I hated it for the long days), and taught myself a great deal doing tutorials and training during work. From this experience I can say that working on real-world problems is the best way for me to learn. I think that if an individual has the correct motivation (i.e. to be a master at his/her craft), he/she will take the time to learn the necessary intricacies.

I learned the most early in my career by helping people with real problems, mainly at ExcelForum.com.


Personal blog relating fishing to database administration:

https://davegugg.wordpress.com/
james.murphy 76104
james.murphy 76104
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I have been out of college for one year and I have found that I did not retain much of what I learned in regards to IT. I was in my mid 30's and found myself at a cross roads in my life and needed to learn a new trade. I was in construction all of my life however I did have a bachelors in Theology. I did not know what I wanted to do because construction was the only trade I have learned. After owning my own business for several years it was disappointing that I had to start all over. I talked to a friend of mine that was in IT and he was a release engineer for a software company. He asked me if I had thought about IT at all. I told him no but the only thing about computers I did like was excel spreadsheets. He told me that I may like working with databases and for me to do some research on my own and see if that was something I may be interested in. I went home and googled databases. Keep in mind I have never seen a database or knew that there was a such thing as SQL, Oracle or DB2 out there. I begin to do some googling and found a site that explained what databases where and the concept behind it. Through this site I learned about SQL and how to write a simple select statement. I then downloaded the free edition of SQL server on my laptop and immediately fell in love with SQL. I went to a two year online school and got my second degree in database development. In those two years I did learn a very high over view of what information technology was but it was on the job training where I learned all of my skill sets I have today. I am currently a DBA and would not dare say that it was due to anything that I learned in college. The only thing my degree gave me was an open door as many companies today want you to have that piece of paper to say that you have some kind of education. I am not downing any colleges because I am not that kind of person. If I had any suggestions to college students it would be to find your passion and stick with it. If you dont know how to do something there is tons of information on the internet and learn quickly to "Adapt and overcome" because failure is not an option.

Good luck to you all!!!!
Tobar
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I think you need both. I was classically trained, if there is such a thing in computer science, with theory and all. I work with too many "home grown" developers that lack good developmental practices. There is a reason they are called structured languages. I think Theory and practice should be interweaved throughout the educational process.

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