SQL Clone
SQLServerCentral is supported by Redgate
 
Log in  ::  Register  ::  Not logged in
 
 
 


Managers


Managers

Author
Message
paul s-306273
paul s-306273
Hall of Fame
Hall of Fame (3.5K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.5K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.5K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.5K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.5K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.5K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.5K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.5K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 3486 Visits: 1169
An ignorance of IT seems to be a pre-requisite for management positions where I work. That would be okay if they were good managers...
Alex Gay
Alex Gay
SSC Eights!
SSC Eights! (825 reputation)SSC Eights! (825 reputation)SSC Eights! (825 reputation)SSC Eights! (825 reputation)SSC Eights! (825 reputation)SSC Eights! (825 reputation)SSC Eights! (825 reputation)SSC Eights! (825 reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 825 Visits: 485
paul s-306273 (5/7/2014)
An ignorance of IT seems to be a pre-requisite for management positions where I work. That would be okay if they were good managers...


In "The Art of Management" Richard Templer says that you don't need to be able to do the job of the people that you are managing, because it is not your job to do theirs if they are absent. If you do, who is managing? But he does say that you should understand what they do, which might entail learning the basics (but don't let upper management know, or they may expect the above).

This struck me as obvious, but difficult to achieve. Then again balancing these two opposing pressures is part of the managers job.
Gary Varga
Gary Varga
One Orange Chip
One Orange Chip (27K reputation)One Orange Chip (27K reputation)One Orange Chip (27K reputation)One Orange Chip (27K reputation)One Orange Chip (27K reputation)One Orange Chip (27K reputation)One Orange Chip (27K reputation)One Orange Chip (27K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 27105 Visits: 6544
Alex Gay (5/7/2014)
paul s-306273 (5/7/2014)
An ignorance of IT seems to be a pre-requisite for management positions where I work. That would be okay if they were good managers...


In "The Art of Management" Richard Templer says that you don't need to be able to do the job of the people that you are managing, because it is not your job to do theirs if they are absent. If you do, who is managing? But he does say that you should understand what they do, which might entail learning the basics (but don't let upper management know, or they may expect the above).

This struck me as obvious, but difficult to achieve. Then again balancing these two opposing pressures is part of the managers job.


Thus is often true but then they can fall into the trap of thinking that they are experts at your job too so question every detail of everything that they are told.

Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
eric.notheisen
eric.notheisen
SSC-Addicted
SSC-Addicted (449 reputation)SSC-Addicted (449 reputation)SSC-Addicted (449 reputation)SSC-Addicted (449 reputation)SSC-Addicted (449 reputation)SSC-Addicted (449 reputation)SSC-Addicted (449 reputation)SSC-Addicted (449 reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 449 Visits: 300
Steve Jones is generally speaking on track with what he said. Having spent 15 years in management roles and 35 years in technical roles I can say I have seen both sides of the issue. That being said, the editorial yesterday relative to career vs. vocation makes all the difference in the world. When I was young and relatively stupid in the ways of the corporate world, I thought moving into management was the best thing for my career. I did well in some environments and poorly in others but it was always career focused. During that 15 years I was miserable as a person.

Nineteen years ago I changed hats and went back to technical work, my vocation. I have never regretted it.

Managers receive better compensation than their technical people for the simple reason they are accountable to senior management to meet the goals and objectives of the business organization. Technical people are the tools/resources they use to achieve that. Our work is not in a sports arena but rather an manufacturing organization. Yes, we are the talent but our talent does not bring in revenue for most companies; normally we reduce costs; sports team talent brings in the bucks. There is a reason sales people get paid so much; they bring in the revenue.

We as technical talent can steer the manager in the right direction through constant feedback in a one-on-one meeting. By this I do not mean being obsequious but rather providing sufficient information to help the manager succeed. Managers hate surprises; we can keep them informed and prevent issues by providing feedback.

I was on a project where a deadline was set by upper management but the UI designers took three months longer to get the design to us than planned. Senior management was never told of this delay until it was used as a reason for not delivering on time. Team leadership never told the development management team of the delay and as a result everyone had egg on their face.
erb2000
erb2000
Mr or Mrs. 500
Mr or Mrs. 500 (535 reputation)Mr or Mrs. 500 (535 reputation)Mr or Mrs. 500 (535 reputation)Mr or Mrs. 500 (535 reputation)Mr or Mrs. 500 (535 reputation)Mr or Mrs. 500 (535 reputation)Mr or Mrs. 500 (535 reputation)Mr or Mrs. 500 (535 reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 535 Visits: 141
We don't have managers. We use the "Group System" where everyone is a member of one or more groups. Each group reports to another group in a hierarchy. There is a group leader, but he is not above any of the members. People in our company are expected to know what to do and do it. We have six month peer reviews, and if someone isn't working out it is obvious.

I've been here four years and love it. I am in a product development group and a product support group. For the first group I develop new features. For the second group I fix bugs.
OCTom
OCTom
SSCarpal Tunnel
SSCarpal Tunnel (4.1K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.1K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.1K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.1K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.1K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.1K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.1K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.1K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 4125 Visits: 4152
The best manager I had was not technical. The worst manager I had was technical. Most are in between and are OK as leaders. I've had good and bad from both sides. What really seems to make the difference is the ability to understand the capabilities of their charges and act accordingly. You assign tasks based on their strengths and train to rid them of their weaknesses.

Tom
Gary Varga
Gary Varga
One Orange Chip
One Orange Chip (27K reputation)One Orange Chip (27K reputation)One Orange Chip (27K reputation)One Orange Chip (27K reputation)One Orange Chip (27K reputation)One Orange Chip (27K reputation)One Orange Chip (27K reputation)One Orange Chip (27K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 27105 Visits: 6544
eric.notheisen (5/7/2014)
...
I was on a project where a deadline was set by upper management but the UI designers took three months longer to get the design to us than planned. Senior management was never told of this delay until it was used as a reason for not delivering on time. Team leadership never told the development management team of the delay and as a result everyone had egg on their face.


The fear of reporting the truth only causes more mayhem in my experience.

Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
Gary Varga
Gary Varga
One Orange Chip
One Orange Chip (27K reputation)One Orange Chip (27K reputation)One Orange Chip (27K reputation)One Orange Chip (27K reputation)One Orange Chip (27K reputation)One Orange Chip (27K reputation)One Orange Chip (27K reputation)One Orange Chip (27K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 27105 Visits: 6544
erb2000 (5/7/2014)
We don't have managers. We use the "Group System" where everyone is a member of one or more groups. Each group reports to another group in a hierarchy. There is a group leader, but he is not above any of the members. People in our company are expected to know what to do and do it. We have six month peer reviews, and if someone isn't working out it is obvious.

I've been here four years and love it. I am in a product development group and a product support group. For the first group I develop new features. For the second group I fix bugs.


Now that sounds interesting!!!

Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
paul.knibbs
paul.knibbs
SSCarpal Tunnel
SSCarpal Tunnel (4.2K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.2K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.2K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.2K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.2K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.2K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.2K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.2K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 4188 Visits: 6240
Surely no-one would ever *want* to be a manager if they were paid less than the people they're overseeing? I certainly wouldn't want to do that job! :-)
patrickmcginnis59 10839
patrickmcginnis59 10839
SSCarpal Tunnel
SSCarpal Tunnel (4.3K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.3K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.3K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.3K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.3K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.3K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.3K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.3K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 4298 Visits: 5893
Steph Locke (5/7/2014)


The proposition that managers should be de facto paid less than technical experts isn't something I agree with. I'd suggest the amount of management a particularly strong set of technical experts needs is actually significantly higher and more complex than a team of mediocre techies as they will need interactions with folks higher up the company and the pressures are greater. Such a person needs to be very skilled at management and their pay should reflect that.


+1 !

I think we get hung up on how managers "manage people" when in fact, much of managers work involves directing peoples efforts, and when you think of it, making multiple peoples workflows mesh in a productive fashion is a nontrivial problem!

to properly post on a forum:
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/61537/
Go


Permissions

You can't post new topics.
You can't post topic replies.
You can't post new polls.
You can't post replies to polls.
You can't edit your own topics.
You can't delete your own topics.
You can't edit other topics.
You can't delete other topics.
You can't edit your own posts.
You can't edit other posts.
You can't delete your own posts.
You can't delete other posts.
You can't post events.
You can't edit your own events.
You can't edit other events.
You can't delete your own events.
You can't delete other events.
You can't send private messages.
You can't send emails.
You can read topics.
You can't vote in polls.
You can't upload attachments.
You can download attachments.
You can't post HTML code.
You can't edit HTML code.
You can't post IFCode.
You can't post JavaScript.
You can post emoticons.
You can't post or upload images.

Select a forum

































































































































































SQLServerCentral


Search