Click here to monitor SSC
SQLServerCentral is supported by Redgate
 
Log in  ::  Register  ::  Not logged in
 
 
 


Stunned


Stunned

Author
Message
Steve Jones
Steve Jones
SSC-Dedicated
SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)

Group: Administrators
Points: 36186 Visits: 18751
chappellc (8/28/2013)
Steve,
I would hope that you would at the very least forward this forum link to the person in question. Perhaps a solid verbal bashing by a growing group of peers would do more to enlighten him than anything else.


I don't know who it is and don't want to accuse someone if I don't have first hand knowledge.

I'm hoping this piece brings light to the situation.

Follow me on Twitter: @way0utwest
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
My Blog: www.voiceofthedba.com
Steve Jones
Steve Jones
SSC-Dedicated
SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)SSC-Dedicated (36K reputation)

Group: Administrators
Points: 36186 Visits: 18751
phonetictalk (8/28/2013)
djackson 22568 (8/28/2013)
First, groups that support a single gender, race or ethnicity are just as bad when it comes to continuing prejudice, and for those people who are ignorant enough to spout the BS you referenced, those groups only further the prejudice by making those people think the group is getting special treatment BECAUSE they aren't qualified!

Please, no more special groups!


There's been a few statements in the comments section denigrating subgroups like Women in Technology and suggesting their mere existence perpetuates stereotypes.

I strongly disagree.

On the day that I became a citizen of the USA, the judge specifically said that being American doesn't mean that I shouldn't celebrate where I was born and the culture I was raised in.

I think the same logic applies here. Being "assimilated" into the wider community doesn't mean giving up or ignoring the fact that you're a woman (or a black man or a Chinese woman). We don't have to hide our differences entirely and pretend we are all one and the same in order to eliminate prejudice and stereotypes. We can celebrate our differences (which can include being members of subgroups) whilst still being respected in the wider community.

I heartily support the Women in Technology group.


+1. Better response than I had. Thanks.

Follow me on Twitter: @way0utwest
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
My Blog: www.voiceofthedba.com
ahperez
ahperez
SSC-Addicted
SSC-Addicted (446 reputation)SSC-Addicted (446 reputation)SSC-Addicted (446 reputation)SSC-Addicted (446 reputation)SSC-Addicted (446 reputation)SSC-Addicted (446 reputation)SSC-Addicted (446 reputation)SSC-Addicted (446 reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 446 Visits: 635
As long as there are clowns in charge who think the ability to deliver technical content to a group is ruled by anything other than talent, hard work and the ability to articulate complex concepts in a clear, concise way there will be a need for special interest sub-groups where other voices can be heard.

Which is unfortunate. It would be much better to be unified in our pursuit of excellence in SQL server. My favorite posts and threads are the spirited differences of technical opinon where I am able to learn from both sides. :-)

50 years after MLK's Dream speech we are closer to making the dream a reality. Each of us can still push a little further towards that Star Trek like workplace where individuals are valued for ideas and work ethics.
John Hanrahan
John Hanrahan
Say Hey Kid
Say Hey Kid (672 reputation)Say Hey Kid (672 reputation)Say Hey Kid (672 reputation)Say Hey Kid (672 reputation)Say Hey Kid (672 reputation)Say Hey Kid (672 reputation)Say Hey Kid (672 reputation)Say Hey Kid (672 reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 672 Visits: 1449
WOW, I wonder how often that was said when African Americans applied for jobs in the south at an all white company??? WOW.
djackson 22568
djackson 22568
Right there with Babe
Right there with Babe (739 reputation)Right there with Babe (739 reputation)Right there with Babe (739 reputation)Right there with Babe (739 reputation)Right there with Babe (739 reputation)Right there with Babe (739 reputation)Right there with Babe (739 reputation)Right there with Babe (739 reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 739 Visits: 1176
phonetictalk (8/28/2013)
djackson 22568 (8/28/2013)
First, groups that support a single gender, race or ethnicity are just as bad when it comes to continuing prejudice, and for those people who are ignorant enough to spout the BS you referenced, those groups only further the prejudice by making those people think the group is getting special treatment BECAUSE they aren't qualified!

Please, no more special groups!


There's been a few statements in the comments section denigrating subgroups like Women in Technology and suggesting their mere existence perpetuates stereotypes.

I strongly disagree.

On the day that I became a citizen of the USA, the judge specifically said that being American doesn't mean that I shouldn't celebrate where I was born and the culture I was raised in.

I think the same logic applies here. Being "assimilated" into the wider community doesn't mean giving up or ignoring the fact that you're a woman (or a black man or a Chinese woman). We don't have to hide our differences entirely and pretend we are all one and the same in order to eliminate prejudice and stereotypes. We can celebrate our differences (which can include being members of subgroups) whilst still being respected in the wider community.

I heartily support the Women in Technology group.


If you read the entire response I posted you would not say I was denigrating anything other than the idiots who think that women aren't as good as men in technology. What I was saying is that there are people who view groups like Women in Technology as proof that the group is incompetent. They think "if they were competent they wouldn't need a group". I don't agree with them, in fact I strongly DISAGREE with them, but I do believe it would be best to not give them excuses to support their prejudice.

I am not going to get into a debate on these groups. I respect that you heartily support the group suggestion. The reasons you mentioned are of course good reasons for starting a group like this. I have absolutely zero disagreement with your reasons. Period.

I will say that here in America only some "special people" are allowed to have groups, and others are outlawed. That is a double standard that generates racism, sexism and other prejudice. If someone wanted to start a Men in Technology group, the outcry would be ridiculous. The double standard is what causes problems.

I will also say again, like I did in the original post, that we need to accept that we are all different, and we need to celebrate those differences. Diffferences are what make us strong as a culture, race, species, whatever term you want to use. Ignoring those differences and pretending they don't exist is where a lot of problems stem from.

Dave
fificito
fificito
SSC Rookie
SSC Rookie (45 reputation)SSC Rookie (45 reputation)SSC Rookie (45 reputation)SSC Rookie (45 reputation)SSC Rookie (45 reputation)SSC Rookie (45 reputation)SSC Rookie (45 reputation)SSC Rookie (45 reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 45 Visits: 59
What these people do not realize is that the reason we should be open to persons different from ourselves is not because it is the "right" thing to do. It is because our experience becomes richer with very different points of view. If we stick to people who think / act like us, the experience becomes poorer. It's exactly what happens with breeding, the bigger the gene pool, the sturdier and better adapted is the resulting population.
Chris93147
Chris93147
SSC-Enthusiastic
SSC-Enthusiastic (166 reputation)SSC-Enthusiastic (166 reputation)SSC-Enthusiastic (166 reputation)SSC-Enthusiastic (166 reputation)SSC-Enthusiastic (166 reputation)SSC-Enthusiastic (166 reputation)SSC-Enthusiastic (166 reputation)SSC-Enthusiastic (166 reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 166 Visits: 389
Disgusted? Yes. Surprised? No.

When will the gender/race/religion/etc. issue finally be put down? Only when we as a community of professionals no longer tolerate it. The individual who spoke this way does not deserve hate or violence. These two things only breed more hate and violence and quite frankly, the world has enough of both.

What is needed is correction. To have highly respectable individuals approach him and with sincerity try to get to the bottom of his belief that women are not up to technical discussions. The user group that he leads also needs to not tolerate this mentality and until proven otherwise he should be quietly removed from any leadership position.

We need to be role models for the entire community and the public at large. We are individual professionals with unique insights and experiences that can only add to the strength and knowledge of the community as a whole.
Tom_Sacramento
Tom_Sacramento
Hall of Fame
Hall of Fame (3.1K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.1K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.1K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.1K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.1K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.1K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.1K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.1K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 3147 Visits: 769
This seems so absurd that these attitudes would be fostered and expressed in this century. I think our world is better for the many technical contributions and perspectives, regardless of gender or any other bias.
We really need to look past our xenophobic tendencies. We can start by being a little more secure in who we are, and why we're here. Just sayin'

Can we put together a group called people with 'Foot In Mouth In IT' or FIM-IT?

Or maybe

The 'Brotherhood of the Masticated Foot in IT' - BMF/IT has a nice ring to it.


Tom in Sacramento

For better, quicker answers on T-SQL questions, click on the following...
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537/
Megan Brooks
Megan Brooks
SSC Rookie
SSC Rookie (28 reputation)SSC Rookie (28 reputation)SSC Rookie (28 reputation)SSC Rookie (28 reputation)SSC Rookie (28 reputation)SSC Rookie (28 reputation)SSC Rookie (28 reputation)SSC Rookie (28 reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 28 Visits: 146
If the remark had come from a political figure, many of us would get it right away. Is there any reason to think that such people don't exist wihin other domains?

Of course if it were an elected political leader, we would quite possibly re-elect him (or not; it depends in part on whether it leads to a loss of favor with more powerful people). I have limited faith in the electorate. I wonder, however, if the members of this particular user's group see what they need to do.
Charles Kincaid
Charles Kincaid
Ten Centuries
Ten Centuries (1K reputation)Ten Centuries (1K reputation)Ten Centuries (1K reputation)Ten Centuries (1K reputation)Ten Centuries (1K reputation)Ten Centuries (1K reputation)Ten Centuries (1K reputation)Ten Centuries (1K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 1041 Visits: 2383
I thought that there would be a lot of comment about this. Good.

I have worked with technically competent folks of both genders. Some more competent than others. Gender has never been a factor. Or age. So called race either. I guess I'm socially constipated. If it is not about the job then I don't give a **it!

Did somebody say that this mope was still a User Group Leader? I think that I'm with Robert Heinlein on this. Voting is an act of violence. Next group election express yourself!

ATBCharles Kincaid
Go


Permissions

You can't post new topics.
You can't post topic replies.
You can't post new polls.
You can't post replies to polls.
You can't edit your own topics.
You can't delete your own topics.
You can't edit other topics.
You can't delete other topics.
You can't edit your own posts.
You can't edit other posts.
You can't delete your own posts.
You can't delete other posts.
You can't post events.
You can't edit your own events.
You can't edit other events.
You can't delete your own events.
You can't delete other events.
You can't send private messages.
You can't send emails.
You can read topics.
You can't vote in polls.
You can't upload attachments.
You can download attachments.
You can't post HTML code.
You can't edit HTML code.
You can't post IFCode.
You can't post JavaScript.
You can post emoticons.
You can't post or upload images.

Select a forum

































































































































































SQLServerCentral


Search