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Eric M Russell
Eric M Russell
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jcrawf02 (6/10/2013)
Grant Fritchey (6/10/2013)
After visiting TechEd, I'm more and more convinced, the damn is going to break and we'll see tons of people using Azure, or, Microsoft is going to fold up and go away. There no longer feels like the possibility of a middle ground. They're just too committed to it. As such, I'm going to keep going with my pursuit of Azure knowledge, but I can't see a lot of people doing the same thing.
What do you think is going to happen to businesses that feel they can't commit to the cloud for privacy reasons? Is there a data model for them at Microsoft, or are they going to have to rely on outdated product support for a while and then switch to another vendor entirely?

My understanding that that the SQL Azure branch is being folded back into the SQL Server codebase, and going forward the same release of SQL Server / Azure will support intallation in a hosted cloud, a private cloud, or even on bare metal similar to what we've always had. Does anyone know different?


"The universe is complicated and for the most part beyond your control, but your life is only as complicated as you choose it to be."
Steve Jones
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Seed Vicious (6/10/2013)
and SQL2008 RTM will be discontinued?w00t


Support will wane next year. However given that in April 2014 this will be 5 years old, that's expected.

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Steve Jones
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Eric M Russell (6/10/2013)

My understanding that that the SQL Azure branch is being folded back into the SQL Server codebase, and going forward the same release of SQL Server / Azure will support intallation in a hosted cloud, a private cloud, or even on bare metal similar to what we've always had. Does anyone know different?


My understanding is the reverse. The Azure codebase was a branch, but it's become the mainline, with the box product being a branch. Things happen in Azure first (even as they're catching up with some features) and they may or may not get into the boxed product.

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chrisn-585491
chrisn-585491
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What do you think is going to happen to businesses that feel they can't commit to the cloud for privacy reasons? Is there a data model for them at Microsoft, or are they going to have to rely on outdated product support for a while and then switch to another vendor entirely?


People reject public "clouds" for very good reasons.

As for the rapid re-versions (cha-ching!) in the MS product line: The ones that aren't fully committed to the MS stack, will find alternatives if they can afford to switch. There's a whole new generation of developers with OSS that are much more aggressive in pursuing clients.

Most companies are committed to the MS stack and can't convert due to years of legacy code, processes, training etc... Redmond can lead them onwards forcing changes year after year, even if it doesn't make business sense.

Basically it's a bow toward Mecca moment...

As for Azure leading the "box" version of the software, they have a lot of issues to fix in Azure before the veteran DBAs and developers outside of the "cloud" hype zone trust Azure.
Miles Neale
Miles Neale
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Steve Jones - SSC Editor (6/10/2013)
Eric M Russell (6/10/2013)

My understanding that that the SQL Azure branch is being folded back into the SQL Server codebase, and going forward the same release of SQL Server / Azure will support installation in a hosted cloud, a private cloud, or even on bare metal similar to what we've always had. Does anyone know different?


My understanding is the reverse. The Azure codebase was a branch, but it's become the mainline, with the box product being a branch. Things happen in Azure first (even as they're catching up with some features) and they may or may not get into the boxed product.


My read is that at one time Microsoft added a second product to SQL Server embedding into the codebase all the additional functionality that is Azure. The code was homogenous with many shared components and functions. in the original set the emphasis was in the main money making product SQL Server and it remained in that focus until Microsoft determined the profitability of Azure.

If Microsoft "follows the money" as we all believe it does, when the possibility of Azure being profitable became more of a reality, more development and emphasis was put on the additional product, Azure, incrementally. The revelation now is that Azure appears to be the coming "cash cow" and Microsoft bet at least a large part of the farm on that probability. As such they are realigning the code base to not be SQL with Azure appended into it, but Azure first and foremost, and SQL as part of the Azure solution set.

M.

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Grant Fritchey
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jcrawf02 (6/10/2013)
Grant Fritchey (6/10/2013)
After visiting TechEd, I'm more and more convinced, the damn is going to break and we'll see tons of people using Azure, or, Microsoft is going to fold up and go away. There no longer feels like the possibility of a middle ground. They're just too committed to it. As such, I'm going to keep going with my pursuit of Azure knowledge, but I can't see a lot of people doing the same thing.
What do you think is going to happen to businesses that feel they can't commit to the cloud for privacy reasons? Is there a data model for them at Microsoft, or are they going to have to rely on outdated product support for a while and then switch to another vendor entirely?

The emphasis is on a hybrid approach. I'm pretty sure they acknowledge that not everyone or everything can go to Azure. But they sure seem to be assuming a lot more will be going there than appears to be at present.

----------------------------------------------------
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Grant Fritchey
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Eric M Russell (6/10/2013)
Oh, those of us who just finished our 2012 certifications are looking forward to this.


And I only finished updating three different books last year. I get to start that again. Yay!

----------------------------------------------------
The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood...
Theodore Roosevelt

The Scary DBA
Author of: SQL Server Query Performance Tuning and SQL Server Execution Plans
Product Evangelist for Red Gate Software
Steve Jones
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chrisn-585491 (6/10/2013)


People reject public "clouds" for very good reasons.


You forgot some. Some people reject this. Lots don't. I suspect a majority of companies/situations are not using cloud services, but that will change over time. Will it ever my a majority? No idea.

There are good reasons to reject the cloud, but there isn't a blanket reason to say yes or no.


As for the rapid re-versions (cha-ching!) in the MS product line: The ones that aren't fully committed to the MS stack, will find alternatives if they can afford to switch. There's a whole new generation of developers with OSS that are much more aggressive in pursuing clients.


Only natural as database products mature, and the alternatives meet some minimum bar. If we get more OSS products that work with .NET easily, especially things like LINQ/EF, I suspect we'll see more people migrate away. Overall, it's healthy to have choice in ecosystems.



Most companies are committed to the MS stack and can't convert due to years of legacy code, processes, training etc... Redmond can lead them onwards forcing changes year after year, even if it doesn't make business sense.

Basically it's a bow toward Mecca moment...

As for Azure leading the "box" version of the software, they have a lot of issues to fix in Azure before the veteran DBAs and developers outside of the "cloud" hype zone trust Azure.


I'm not sure this is true. What seems to be happening is that less and less (%-wise) installations are upgrading to new versions quickly. Instead it's a slow migration, with some new instances taking the latest version, but older instances being in use. There are still lots of SQL 2000 instances out there, on a 13 year old product.

I suspect what we'll see is people truly pushing their platform pieces (OS/database) to a 10+ year lifetime. With the maturity of the products, it's hard to say that SQL 2005/2008 won't cut it for the majority of your needs. There may be places you want newer things, but overall, for an RDBMS platform, those work great. My guess is that in 2020, we'll still see some 2005, lots of 2008/2008R2 installations out there and they will out number the 2012/2014/2016/2018 installations.

Follow me on Twitter: @way0utwest
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
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Revenant
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Grant Fritchey (6/10/2013)
jcrawf02 (6/10/2013)
Grant Fritchey (6/10/2013)
After visiting TechEd, I'm more and more convinced, the damn is going to break and we'll see tons of people using Azure, or, Microsoft is going to fold up and go away. There no longer feels like the possibility of a middle ground. They're just too committed to it. As such, I'm going to keep going with my pursuit of Azure knowledge, but I can't see a lot of people doing the same thing.
What do you think is going to happen to businesses that feel they can't commit to the cloud for privacy reasons? Is there a data model for them at Microsoft, or are they going to have to rely on outdated product support for a while and then switch to another vendor entirely?

The emphasis is on a hybrid approach. I'm pretty sure they acknowledge that not everyone or everything can go to Azure. But they sure seem to be assuming a lot more will be going there than appears to be at present.

Hybrid approach has its pitfalls, and the first of those is price. Per-kb cost of transferring data from Azure to your local cloud or server is atrocious. MSFT apparently wants you to upload all your data - which is relatively cheap - and keep it there, including transforms from transactional to data mart to cubes and download only aggregated info. Of course if there is a problem with Azure access, you are screwed.
chrisn-585491
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Hybrid approach has its pitfalls, and the first of those is price. Per-kb cost of transferring data from Azure to your local cloud or server is atrocious. MSFT apparently wants you to upload all your data - which is relatively cheap - and keep it there, including transforms from transactional to data mart to cubes and download only aggregated info. Of course if there is a problem with Azure access, you are screwed.


Yes, you get nickeled and dimed to death on hosted Azure. It's amazing that one of Buck Woody's Azure posts is how to minimize this process. Reminds me of the tricks we used to pull to get the work done within budget in the good ole mainframe days.

I just realized that Microsoft truly has become IBM and had a flashback to 1987!
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