SQL Clone
SQLServerCentral is supported by Redgate
 
Log in  ::  Register  ::  Not logged in
 
 
 


Better Bosses Needed


Better Bosses Needed

Author
Message
Steve Jones
Steve Jones
SSC Guru
SSC Guru (221K reputation)SSC Guru (221K reputation)SSC Guru (221K reputation)SSC Guru (221K reputation)SSC Guru (221K reputation)SSC Guru (221K reputation)SSC Guru (221K reputation)SSC Guru (221K reputation)

Group: Administrators
Points: 221355 Visits: 19617
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Better Bosses Needed

Follow me on Twitter: @way0utwest
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
My Blog: www.voiceofthedba.com
davoscollective
davoscollective
SSCrazy
SSCrazy (2.5K reputation)SSCrazy (2.5K reputation)SSCrazy (2.5K reputation)SSCrazy (2.5K reputation)SSCrazy (2.5K reputation)SSCrazy (2.5K reputation)SSCrazy (2.5K reputation)SSCrazy (2.5K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 2507 Visits: 1008
MBA programs have received a lot of criticism http://harvardmagazine.com/harvard-in-the-news/call-to-reform-m-b-a-degrees in recent years given that the GFC was essentially an MBA led recession.

There has been significant push back from particular student groups, e.g. Harvard business students to develop an MBA "Oath" somewhat like the hippocratic oath to try and govern the way managers behave and turn "management" into a profession. http://www.mbaintheusa.com/analyzing-the-idea-behind-the-mba-oath/

My own recent experiences with the MBA are that professors are taking a deep interest in this and trying to turn out graduates who behave with integrity and humanity rather that being cold and calculating like the managers we've all experienced, simultaneously minimizing your salary and maximizing their bonus.

The key takeaway for me was that as a manager you will inevitably be called upon to do nasty deeds. That in itself is not the key, what is important is how you behave about it and to always ensure you treat people with dignity.

Tony Hayward, the ex BP CEO, after the Oil Rig catastrophe famously said that he wanted "his life back". Right there is an example of how not to behave with dignity and integrity.

I'm encouraged by the universities assuming responsibility for the type of managers they are churning out, but also dismayed by some of the students I've collaborated with who are clearly in it for the money. Hopefully increased accountability will make a difference.
SQLPhil
SQLPhil
SSCrazy
SSCrazy (2.3K reputation)SSCrazy (2.3K reputation)SSCrazy (2.3K reputation)SSCrazy (2.3K reputation)SSCrazy (2.3K reputation)SSCrazy (2.3K reputation)SSCrazy (2.3K reputation)SSCrazy (2.3K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 2256 Visits: 740
Those that survive, or perhaps thrive, get promoted.

An interesting observation there Steve. Unfortunately I've seen too many examples where bad managers are promoted to get them out of the position they're in. Those that are good at their jobs are held there and not given the opportunity to move on to bigger and better things. Of course, this is usually because of the bad boss at the helm, a culture that has developed over time, or the fact that it is too much hassle to sack someone.

All too often I find those that please their boss are promoted

How very true, and in respect of what I've mentioned above, they are simply able to survive despite their incompetence. It's one of the reasons I left my previous employment as I just found it too frustrating.
SGT_squeequal
SGT_squeequal
SSCrazy
SSCrazy (2.1K reputation)SSCrazy (2.1K reputation)SSCrazy (2.1K reputation)SSCrazy (2.1K reputation)SSCrazy (2.1K reputation)SSCrazy (2.1K reputation)SSCrazy (2.1K reputation)SSCrazy (2.1K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 2059 Visits: 1118
Having managed teams of variouse types for over 10 years I feel that to be a manager you but need to follow a few simple rules.

Never expect anyone do do something that you would never be prepared to do yourself

and

Lead by example


Set a good example in the workforce and get a good result, set a bad example and you get a shit and unhappy workforce. I have seen too many bad managers who follow the rule; do as i say not as i do.

remember 1 person can not let a team down however, a team can let one person down Smile w00t

A happy worker is a good worker an unhappy worker will just leave Smile

*************************************************************

The first is always the hardestw00t
Core6430
Core6430
SSC-Enthusiastic
SSC-Enthusiastic (107 reputation)SSC-Enthusiastic (107 reputation)SSC-Enthusiastic (107 reputation)SSC-Enthusiastic (107 reputation)SSC-Enthusiastic (107 reputation)SSC-Enthusiastic (107 reputation)SSC-Enthusiastic (107 reputation)SSC-Enthusiastic (107 reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 107 Visits: 207
The worst bosses I've had (a good boss is extremely rare), were promoted because they talked the loudest, and bragged the hardest, and took credit for things that weren't there's. The good bosses just do their job, and give credit to the person who actually did the work. It seems like the qualities that will get you promoted are the qualities that make a bad boss. The egotistical, narcissistic, qualities that get the employee noticed as a "leader" who is worthy of promotion are the qualities that make someone a bad boss. We reward the loud mouth, selfish, morally questionable people with promotions.

And even when upper management is well aware that talent is running from their company, they leave the bad bosses in place. They would rather sacrifice 100 top notch employees than remove one bad boss.
thadeushuck
thadeushuck
Mr or Mrs. 500
Mr or Mrs. 500 (565 reputation)Mr or Mrs. 500 (565 reputation)Mr or Mrs. 500 (565 reputation)Mr or Mrs. 500 (565 reputation)Mr or Mrs. 500 (565 reputation)Mr or Mrs. 500 (565 reputation)Mr or Mrs. 500 (565 reputation)Mr or Mrs. 500 (565 reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 565 Visits: 164
Things needed to increase the next generation towards being better bosses would be higher education changes that bring back spanking, political policies that establish dueling as acceptable form of mediation, and forming a manditory 2 year tour of duty in military for all teenagers. The herd needs a good thinning, till then find a cash cow and hide.
chrisn-585491
chrisn-585491
SSCertifiable
SSCertifiable (5.3K reputation)SSCertifiable (5.3K reputation)SSCertifiable (5.3K reputation)SSCertifiable (5.3K reputation)SSCertifiable (5.3K reputation)SSCertifiable (5.3K reputation)SSCertifiable (5.3K reputation)SSCertifiable (5.3K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 5251 Visits: 2604
The two worst bosses I've had were MBA's and were both retired miltary. w00t
WolforthJ
WolforthJ
SSC Veteran
SSC Veteran (270 reputation)SSC Veteran (270 reputation)SSC Veteran (270 reputation)SSC Veteran (270 reputation)SSC Veteran (270 reputation)SSC Veteran (270 reputation)SSC Veteran (270 reputation)SSC Veteran (270 reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 270 Visits: 268
I think I've said enough about bad bosses in the past. Thanks for at least bringing some humor to the conversation Steve. I'll watch the comments for a while and hope someone comes with some brilliant insight. Whistling
djackson 22568
djackson 22568
Hall of Fame
Hall of Fame (3.5K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.5K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.5K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.5K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.5K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.5K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.5K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.5K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 3547 Visits: 1258
Count your blessings applies here, as although I have seen a lot of poor management, I have been fortunate to not have had that many bad managers, and none recently.

I started at 14 with a guy that liked to wave power tools around in the air as he yelled at us. Multiple attempts to quit were refused! My dad had to come in and make him "allow me to leave". I can't see how it could have got any worse. While I had some poor managers after that, in truth a lot of it was my attitude as a teenager, it wasn't all their faults.

As an adult I have had decent or better managers. The best quickly realized what they had going with me, and pretty much got out of the way. Every one of those has been very sorry to see me leave. There are workers who are far better than I am, but managers love when they can count on an employee to get the job done, do it correctly, and they certainly love employees who are trustworthy.

I see by the responses here that my experiences are somewhat unique. I complain about the issues I see in business, but it is unpleasant to hear from those who actually experience it. I feel for those who have to deal with it. Unlike some in the media, I recognize that it is difficult to uproot your family to find a new job in a new area, and for most of us, jobs where we live are hard to come by. So replacing a manager isn't as easy as it sounds.

My managers have not been perfect, but for the most part they have been good people doing their best to lead others to success.

Dave
djackson 22568
djackson 22568
Hall of Fame
Hall of Fame (3.5K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.5K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.5K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.5K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.5K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.5K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.5K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.5K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 3547 Visits: 1258
SGT_squeequal (7/30/2012)
Having managed teams of variouse types for over 10 years I feel that to be a manager you but need to follow a few simple rules.

Never expect anyone do do something that you would never be prepared to do yourself
and
Lead by example
Set a good example in the workforce and get a good result, set a bad example and you get a shit and unhappy workforce. I have seen too many bad managers who follow the rule; do as i say not as i do.
remember 1 person can not let a team down however, a team can let one person down Smile w00t
A happy worker is a good worker an unhappy worker will just leave Smile


My comment is directed towards the ideas presented, not the person presenting them.

All too often I see managers who spout this BS thinking it makes them a good manager. It doesn't. Those who truly lead by example, and who are willing to do the ugly jobs, are usually better people and thus better managers, but are in the MINORITY! We all have had managers who claim to follow these rules yet everyone knows they really don't. I especially hate the sayings about letting a team down and unhappy workers.

How many managers count themselves as great managers because of low turnover? Then the economy improves, everyone quits, and they blame turnover on the economy? Wake up and smell the coffee - unhappy workers do not leave, they cause massive issues before they are fired! Some may leave, but the majority can't. Unhappy workers are normally a group that have less ability to succeed on their own, and whom good managers can assist. Bad managers look at them as poor workers and refuse to recognize their own involvement in the poor performance of the worker.

"There is no I in team" and all the other cute sayings do nothing more than annoy most people. If there is no I in team, why does John get the same raise I do when his actions hurt our team so often? Why does Sue get to act how she does? Truly leading well is not about cute things to say, it is about what you do. Management training today is focused on cute sayings. Poor managers aren't going to improve until we stop trying to fit everyone into the same mold, and recognize that our differences are what makes a good team.

Dave
Go


Permissions

You can't post new topics.
You can't post topic replies.
You can't post new polls.
You can't post replies to polls.
You can't edit your own topics.
You can't delete your own topics.
You can't edit other topics.
You can't delete other topics.
You can't edit your own posts.
You can't edit other posts.
You can't delete your own posts.
You can't delete other posts.
You can't post events.
You can't edit your own events.
You can't edit other events.
You can't delete your own events.
You can't delete other events.
You can't send private messages.
You can't send emails.
You can read topics.
You can't vote in polls.
You can't upload attachments.
You can download attachments.
You can't post HTML code.
You can't edit HTML code.
You can't post IFCode.
You can't post JavaScript.
You can post emoticons.
You can't post or upload images.

Select a forum

































































































































































SQLServerCentral


Search