Click here to monitor SSC
SQLServerCentral is supported by Redgate
 
Log in  ::  Register  ::  Not logged in
 
 
 


Data Typing Quandry


Data Typing Quandry

Author
Message
UMG Developer
UMG Developer
SSCrazy
SSCrazy (2.3K reputation)SSCrazy (2.3K reputation)SSCrazy (2.3K reputation)SSCrazy (2.3K reputation)SSCrazy (2.3K reputation)SSCrazy (2.3K reputation)SSCrazy (2.3K reputation)SSCrazy (2.3K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 2280 Visits: 2204
Cliff Jones (11/17/2010)
Yes, I agree with this. Compression has an effect on the storage but does not change the defined row size.


But what is the definition for the "defined row size"? Does it include metadata? (Is it a real SQL Server term, or is it just made up?)
Cliff Jones
Cliff Jones
SSCarpal Tunnel
SSCarpal Tunnel (4.1K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.1K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.1K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.1K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.1K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.1K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.1K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.1K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 4069 Visits: 3648
UMG Developer (11/17/2010)
Cliff Jones (11/17/2010)
Yes, I agree with this. Compression has an effect on the storage but does not change the defined row size.


But what is the definition for the "defined row size"? Does it include metadata? (Is it a real SQL Server term, or is it just made up?)


Good point. I could not find a reference to that term so I suspect it is made up so therefore the ambiguity. I started to answer correctly, until I noticed that the question was referring to the "defined row size".
Hugo Kornelis
Hugo Kornelis
SSCrazy Eights
SSCrazy Eights (8.3K reputation)SSCrazy Eights (8.3K reputation)SSCrazy Eights (8.3K reputation)SSCrazy Eights (8.3K reputation)SSCrazy Eights (8.3K reputation)SSCrazy Eights (8.3K reputation)SSCrazy Eights (8.3K reputation)SSCrazy Eights (8.3K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 8347 Visits: 11590
Cliff Jones (11/17/2010)
UMG Developer (11/17/2010)
Cliff Jones (11/17/2010)
Yes, I agree with this. Compression has an effect on the storage but does not change the defined row size.


But what is the definition for the "defined row size"? Does it include metadata? (Is it a real SQL Server term, or is it just made up?)


Good point. I could not find a reference to that term so I suspect it is made up so therefore the ambiguity. I started to answer correctly, until I noticed that the question was referring to the "defined row size".

Since, as far as I know, this is not a reserved SQL Server term, I decided to go wild and employ my English language parser.
In my opinion, "defined row size" should refer to the size of the row as defined. And if I look at the table definition, I can't help but notice the "With (Data_Compression = Row)"

So please stop this babbling about a perceived ambiguity, the question is perfectly clear.
All regulars know that I won't hesitate te criticise a question that I feel does not make the bar. This is no such question.


Hugo Kornelis, SQL Server MVP
Visit my SQL Server blog: http://sqlblog.com/blogs/hugo_kornelis
Cliff Jones
Cliff Jones
SSCarpal Tunnel
SSCarpal Tunnel (4.1K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.1K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.1K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.1K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.1K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.1K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.1K reputation)SSCarpal Tunnel (4.1K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 4069 Visits: 3648
Hugo Kornelis (11/17/2010)
Cliff Jones (11/17/2010)
UMG Developer (11/17/2010)
Cliff Jones (11/17/2010)
Yes, I agree with this. Compression has an effect on the storage but does not change the defined row size.


But what is the definition for the "defined row size"? Does it include metadata? (Is it a real SQL Server term, or is it just made up?)


Good point. I could not find a reference to that term so I suspect it is made up so therefore the ambiguity. I started to answer correctly, until I noticed that the question was referring to the "defined row size".

Since, as far as I know, this is not a reserved SQL Server term, I decided to go wild and employ my English language parser.
In my opinion, "defined row size" should refer to the size of the row as defined. And if I look at the table definition, I can't help but notice the "With (Data_Compression = Row)"

So please stop this babbling about a perceived ambiguity, the question is perfectly clear.
All regulars know that I won't hesitate te criticise a question that I feel does not make the bar. This is no such question.


Thanks, I trust your judgment.
SanDroid
SanDroid
Ten Centuries
Ten Centuries (1.4K reputation)Ten Centuries (1.4K reputation)Ten Centuries (1.4K reputation)Ten Centuries (1.4K reputation)Ten Centuries (1.4K reputation)Ten Centuries (1.4K reputation)Ten Centuries (1.4K reputation)Ten Centuries (1.4K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 1414 Visits: 1046
Hugo Kornelis (11/17/2010)
[quote]
So please stop this babbling about a perceived ambiguity, the question is perfectly clear.
All regulars know that I won't hesitate te criticise a question that I feel does not make the bar. This is no such question.


Hugo,
We would prefer your respect by not calling our criticism babbling.

The with clause in the Table create statements has no relation to if the question is about the Maximum Row size or the Storage Size of the row when stored in a data page.

Some agree with your view, but most that posted about the question do not.
ziangij
ziangij
SSCrazy
SSCrazy (2.9K reputation)SSCrazy (2.9K reputation)SSCrazy (2.9K reputation)SSCrazy (2.9K reputation)SSCrazy (2.9K reputation)SSCrazy (2.9K reputation)SSCrazy (2.9K reputation)SSCrazy (2.9K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 2912 Visits: 374
very nice question... thanks :-)
hakan.winther
hakan.winther
SSCrazy
SSCrazy (2.7K reputation)SSCrazy (2.7K reputation)SSCrazy (2.7K reputation)SSCrazy (2.7K reputation)SSCrazy (2.7K reputation)SSCrazy (2.7K reputation)SSCrazy (2.7K reputation)SSCrazy (2.7K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 2702 Visits: 601
Excellent question, I learned something new.

/Håkan Winther
MCITPBigGrinatabase Developer 2008
MCTS: SQL Server 2008, Implementation and Maintenance
MCSE: Data Platform
Koen Verbeeck
Koen Verbeeck
SSCoach
SSCoach (16K reputation)SSCoach (16K reputation)SSCoach (16K reputation)SSCoach (16K reputation)SSCoach (16K reputation)SSCoach (16K reputation)SSCoach (16K reputation)SSCoach (16K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 16544 Visits: 13210
SanDroid (11/17/2010)
Hugo Kornelis (11/17/2010)
[quote]
So please stop this babbling about a perceived ambiguity, the question is perfectly clear.
All regulars know that I won't hesitate te criticise a question that I feel does not make the bar. This is no such question.


Hugo,
We would prefer your respect by not calling our criticism babbling.


We would prefer your respect for the effort that the author has made to create a question so that people could learn about compression, instead of calling it "dissapointing and lame".

As I've learned something from this question, I find it an excellent question and I thank the author for his contribution.



How to post forum questions.
Need an answer? No, you need a question.
What’s the deal with Excel & SSIS?

Member of LinkedIn. My blog at SQLKover.

MCSA SQL Server 2012 - MCSE Business Intelligence
SanDroid
SanDroid
Ten Centuries
Ten Centuries (1.4K reputation)Ten Centuries (1.4K reputation)Ten Centuries (1.4K reputation)Ten Centuries (1.4K reputation)Ten Centuries (1.4K reputation)Ten Centuries (1.4K reputation)Ten Centuries (1.4K reputation)Ten Centuries (1.4K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 1414 Visits: 1046
da-zero (11/18/2010)
[quote]SanDroid (11/17/2010)
[quote]We would prefer your respect for the effort that the author has made to create a question so that people could learn about compression, instead of calling it "dissapointing and lame".


If you look at some of these posts several people asked the author to respond to the fact that they where not able to replicate what he described.

Why where no responses were made?
Did you learn something that was real?
Did you test the concept?

I made an opinionated response about the question and it's content and that is On Topic discussion.

IMHO: Attacking those opinions and calling them Babble and putting Off Topic mis information in the same paragraph helps nobody learn and clarifies nothing.
UMG Developer
UMG Developer
SSCrazy
SSCrazy (2.3K reputation)SSCrazy (2.3K reputation)SSCrazy (2.3K reputation)SSCrazy (2.3K reputation)SSCrazy (2.3K reputation)SSCrazy (2.3K reputation)SSCrazy (2.3K reputation)SSCrazy (2.3K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 2280 Visits: 2204
SanDroid (11/18/2010)
If you look at some of these posts several people asked the author to respond to the fact that they where not able to replicate what he described.


I can't replicate showing that it actually uses more space, but not having a real definition for "defined row size" doesn't help. (Along with my lack of knowledge of internal storage.)

But the BOL link appears to support the question with these quotes: "In some cases, the metadata overhead might be larger than the old storage format." and "bit: The metadata overhead brings this to 4 bits."
Go


Permissions

You can't post new topics.
You can't post topic replies.
You can't post new polls.
You can't post replies to polls.
You can't edit your own topics.
You can't delete your own topics.
You can't edit other topics.
You can't delete other topics.
You can't edit your own posts.
You can't edit other posts.
You can't delete your own posts.
You can't delete other posts.
You can't post events.
You can't edit your own events.
You can't edit other events.
You can't delete your own events.
You can't delete other events.
You can't send private messages.
You can't send emails.
You can read topics.
You can't vote in polls.
You can't upload attachments.
You can download attachments.
You can't post HTML code.
You can't edit HTML code.
You can't post IFCode.
You can't post JavaScript.
You can post emoticons.
You can't post or upload images.

Select a forum

































































































































































SQLServerCentral


Search