August 24, 2012 at 10:33 am
Hi all,
I came across a Jr. DBA position with no salary attached. A google search of the company didn't turn up any published salary ranges.
Would it be considered rude to email the contact and *politely* ask the range before applying? I'm employed, so I'm not desperate and can't take a pay cut although a lateral move would be fine since this is a position I have a strong interest in.
Thoughts?
Thanks,
Mark
August 24, 2012 at 10:38 am
Mark Eckeard (8/24/2012)
Hi all,I came across a Jr. DBA position with no salary attached. A google search of the company didn't turn up any published salary ranges.
Would it be considered rude to email the contact and *politely* ask the range before applying? I'm employed, so I'm not desperate and can't take a pay cut although a lateral move would be fine since this is a position I have a strong interest in.
Thoughts?
Thanks,
Mark
I've had it pounded into my head that yes, it is rude to ask about salary, unless the interviewer asks you first. So from my perspective, it's probably better to be safe and not ask.
My thought: put in for it and see what happens. You never know.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Check out my blog at https://pianorayk.wordpress.com/
August 24, 2012 at 11:00 am
You could waste a lot of time applying for jobs you won't take. OK if you've got the time...
August 24, 2012 at 11:13 am
True story: my wife was miserable at her job; mean co-workers and the usual underpaid, overworked, underappreciated, story.
so I told her she should start shopping around, but not settling for some place who was going to give her twenty five cents more for doing the same job.
At an interview, she was offered a position, and no kidding, the offer was exactly twenty-five cents more(per hour) than she was currently making. she laughed because she remembered what i said, but the interviewer took it as laughing at the offer, and promptly increased the offer substantially; with the "but with your experience, we can offer you $x. "
she was happy with the offer then, and took the job, but we still recall how it happened.
I'm not saying to laugh at the amount you get offered, but at least go in with your eyes open and be aware of the current rates, as well as your own assesment of your skillset.
Lowell
August 24, 2012 at 11:14 am
You will notice a double standard here. The potential employer will ask for salary history from prospective employees but many refuse to tell these same people what they may expect as salary.
IMHO, if an employer is unwilling to publish a salary range, they should be be prohibited from asking a prospective employee what they make(made). There should be some reciprocity here.
In this situation, I would apply. If the salary turns out to be too low, no one is forcing you to accept the position. That fact that you are currently employed helps you.
August 24, 2012 at 12:03 pm
It used to be consider bad form to ask about salary and benefits in the first interview. However, that is beginning to change. I've had interviews in the last two years where they ask for current salary and I ask them what they'd be offering. It's very practical in that you both get to see if you're at least a match in pay.
I don't ask right away in the first interview. I wait for the employer to ask me first and I ask them if they are willing to reciprocate. I found that some are willing to discuss it up front.
August 24, 2012 at 1:54 pm
I discuss it right up front. I do my best to bring it up politely, but I do bring that up along with time-off, on call duties, and a few other important things. I let the interviewer/recuiter know that I don't want to waste their time, as I am employed and won't be able to consider anything too far below what I am currently making.
I have had quite a few thank me for being so open. I had one who said that they don't discuss salary until the final interview....I made it to the final interview and got a job offer letter...had to turn it down as it was way below what I was currently making ($30,000 less). I made a counter offer, but they refused that and so I sent them my letter thanking them for their time and I let them know in my response that they could have saved themselves a lot of trouble and possibly found the right individual if they had discussed salary from the beginning.
So, I believe it is proper to bring up salary from the beginning....but you need to do it politely and let the company know you are trying to make sure their time isn't wasted.
-SQLBill
August 24, 2012 at 2:55 pm
Great feedback. Thanks guys.
Mark
August 24, 2012 at 3:21 pm
I'm of the personal opinion that I work for money, my money. That's not what employers want to hear, however. So, as mentioned, there's a balance point. But I usually ask before we even waste time on the interview, at least for an expected range. It takes me time and effort to attend the interview, at least twice as much time as it takes the interviewer. Researching the company, getting to and from the location, etc etc.
If they don't understand I care about what they're willing to pay, I don't understand why they think I should care about their future profitability.
Never stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
For better assistance in answering your questions[/url] | Forum Netiquette
For index/tuning help, follow these directions.[/url] |Tally Tables[/url]
Twitter: @AnyWayDBA
August 24, 2012 at 4:29 pm
I find nothing wrong with asking the salary range. If a company gets upset about that, it may be a red flag that you don't actually want to work for them anyway.
So far as requiring proof of prior salary, thats a huge red flag for me and I simply refuse to expose that information.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
August 24, 2012 at 6:18 pm
Jeff Moden (8/24/2012)
I find nothing wrong with asking the salary range. If a company gets upset about that, it may be a red flag that you don't actually want to work for them anyway.So far as requiring proof of prior salary, thats a huge red flag for me and I simply refuse to expose that information.
I've acquired my last few positions through placement firms, which I find to equalize the playing field. They don't even bother to call me unless something is "in my range".
As to those demanding my salary history I've seen it be used to try to limit how much they offer, NOT the other way (it's not like they look at the history and say - gee we should offer him more). It serves no other purpose, so as far as I can tell it just isn't in your best interest to offer the info.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your lack of planning does not constitute an emergency on my part...unless you're my manager...or a director and above...or a really loud-spoken end-user..All right - what was my emergency again?
August 28, 2012 at 7:56 am
I don't see anything wrong with asking about the salary range. The thing is, the employer wants to get you for as little money as possible, so they're going to play the game that way. Don't play their game. Get their offer and don't put your own number out there. If they're too low, say so. If they're too high, say thanks.
BTW, that's not how I negotiated for my current position. I went in and told them exactly what I was making and asked to simply not lose money because I was much more interested in the position than the cash. For a regular job, I don't think I'd do that.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
August 28, 2012 at 5:33 pm
I don't think it is rude if you ask up front if you are diplomatic about it. If you just say "Hey what are you going to pay me?" That might look bad, but if you say "I have this much experience and am looking for a position in this compensation range, is the position you are hiring for in that range?" I have had not one single issue with that method.
I'm also of the same mindset of a few previous posters that I refuse to discuss my previous or current pay rate. But then I also firmly believe that I am reasonable about what I can provide as a DBA and what the correlated compensation rate is for that. As a manager I don't believe many 'DBAs' these days are keeping that in balance. In fact there is a disturbing rate of people who claim to be DBA's who can barely put a select script together or know how to run a backup.
Conversely, I have found that not all Companies have an intimate understanding of what a DBA does, and at what levels their compensation rates should be. I find that asking the salary rate up front lets me know whether or not they know what they are hiring for.
For example, I was once offered a senior level position that was responsible for front to back development; building data warehouses, writing the ETL, then developing reports and business analytics as well as governing all the project management (which granted I have done all of this in the past), but they only wanted to pay me 70k a year. The hiring manager wasn't particularly sure what he was hiring for either and couldn't answer many of my questions and I got the feeling that they weren't sure what they were hiring for. I would say AVOID these situations.
Last but not least, you have to remember, at an entry level position, you are being interviewed and you have to prove your value and experience. At higher level positions not only are you being interviewed and proving your value, but you are also interviewing THEM and making THEM prove their value to you as well. It is good to remember that, you will have much more success with that mindset. Mutual value will generate more happiness 😀
/end soapbox
Link to my blog http://notyelf.com/
August 28, 2012 at 6:10 pm
Thanks to everyone for your input. I really appreciate the feedback.
Taking all this in, I decided to contact the person sending the post and politely asked them for the salary range and will see where it leads. As I said in my OP, I am currently employed and can take my time looking at opportunities.
Mark
August 28, 2012 at 7:33 pm
shannonjk (8/28/2012)
In fact there is a disturbing rate of people who claim to be DBA's who can barely put a select script together or know how to run a backup.
My recent experience with that disturbing rate has been 18 out of 20. Some of them have some seriously inflated resumes according to what I've seen in the interviews. The really bad part about that? I know better but a lot of other folks not quite so fortunate to know good DBAs really get a bad taste in their mouth about what a DBA is and will sometimes just drop the job. Of course, that's really good for accidental DBAs that rise to the occasion.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 19 total)
You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Login to reply