June 10, 2009 at 8:12 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Who's At Fault
June 11, 2009 at 1:38 am
In the meantime, the best defense, as always, is making sure you save often and make backups.
On another disk.
On another continent.
June 11, 2009 at 3:26 am
Ten years ago I was team leader in a small software house. When things went wrong there was a bit of a 'blame' culture - and to stop developers squabbling over fault I used to admit responsiblity - especially when the MD (CEO) used to come down looking for a head to put on a pike.
It got to a stage where I'd come accross a group of developers gathered around a PC and say "Its all my fault - what's the problem" - It got a little out of hand, and code comments follows like "Fixed developerX's bad coding". All very well for compiled code - but a customer found some comments in stored procedures and raised a complaint to the MD. We then had a long and protracted exercise in cleaning up all code comments (in both compiled code and SQL) to make sure nothing referred to individuals or customers.
The offending comment. - slightly changed here
-- Fixed xxxx's stupid mistakes. Thats what you get when employing an obvious donkey to do a real developers job.
June 11, 2009 at 4:20 am
Losing data? As a developer, I have always taken the approach of delete nothing. Delete is not an SQL command I use. Instead, use an additional column such as 'active'. Then, when the s/&t hits the fan, it's probably a selection issue or some such. Easy to analyse and fix.
And of course, not deleting anything also means I can respond to complaints of the "I didn't do it" sort by looking at the active column of the row and the last user who updated the row, and replying "oh yes you did"
Is it panto season yet?
June 11, 2009 at 6:20 am
All I know is that is wasn't my fault...
😀
___________________________________________________
“Politicians are like diapers. They both need changing regularly and for the same reason.”
June 11, 2009 at 6:32 am
Weird thought Software companies, how about instead of being first to market, try being the best on the market.... I used to work at a telecom company that was more interested in being first to market with a product instead of being the best on the market. Now, year after year, they are usually in first place on bad customer satisfaction...
June 11, 2009 at 6:44 am
My second worst frustration in working with an ERP system written in .NET and running on SQL Server is encountering intermittent data loss or corruption.
When you trace through the code, everything looks clean, but somehow out of clean code, and clean input, data was lost or garbage was created.
My absolute worst frustration is that these occurences are considered "acceptable."
Our ERP vendor once supplied a patch and noted that installing it would "make data loss less likely." (actual quote)
So, my question to the group is: What, if any, is an acceptable error rate for data loss or corruption on SQL Server?
June 11, 2009 at 7:06 am
I dislike the whole concept of fault. I prefer responsibility. It's the responsibility of those who can repair the problem. Fault and blame are usually just attempts to dodge responsibility.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
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"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
June 11, 2009 at 7:26 am
I sometimes think trying to find out "who" is to blame just adds fuel to the fire. The goal should be to find out "what" is to blame and then fix it. It's been my experience when you point fingers at a specific person, the result is an environment where people are more concerned about covering up mistakes instead of trying to write high quality software.
June 11, 2009 at 7:48 am
We certainly live in a liability crazy society. There's probably a fortune to be made in writing iron-clad, lawyer-proof disclaimers. A new cottage industry, perhaps... 🙂
It seems people are more interested in finding fault than finding solutions. I mean, whose fault is it really if I spill a cup of hot coffee in my lap or I decide to use the blow dryer in the shower?
Responsibility (as mentioned earlier) and accountability are important elements of improving software development.
Along the lines of writing better software, my manager sent out this piece by Charles Fishman yesterday. He notes that errors are ultimately the result of the process.
June 11, 2009 at 7:53 am
"An implied warranty of merchantability is an unwritten and unspoken guarantee to the buyer that goods purchased conform to ordinary standards of care and that they are of the same average grade, quality, and value as similar goods sold under similar circumstances. In other words, merchantable goods are goods fit for the ordinary purposes for which they are to be used. The Uniform Commercial Code (UCC), adopted by most states, provides that courts may imply a Warranty of merchantability when (1) the seller is the merchant of such goods, and (2) the buyer uses the goods for the ordinary purposes for which such goods are sold (§ 2-314). Thus, a buyer can sue a seller for breaching the implied warranty by selling goods unfit for their ordinary purpose...
The policy behind the implied warranty of merchantability is basic: sellers are generally better suited than buyers to determine whether a product will perform properly. Holding the seller liable for a product that is not fit for its ordinary purpose shifts the costs of nonperformance from the buyer to the seller. This motivates the seller to ensure the product's proper performance before placing it on the market..."
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Implied+Warranty
June 11, 2009 at 8:42 am
Chris (6/11/2009)
"An implied warranty of merchantability...
So the turbo gauge that you fitted/was fitted for you in your car is at fault if it doesn't work, even if, say, your turbo breaks? (implied warranty of merchantability)
GSquared (6/11/2009)
I dislike the whole concept of fault. I prefer responsibility. It's the responsibility of those who can repair the problem. Fault and blame are usually just attempts to dodge responsibility.
Is the local yokel IT repair dude responsible if the operating system decides to kill itself and delete all your family photos? Must he call in the HDD recovery teams to get them back? Is it their responsibility then? Is it your responsibility because you didn't have a backup?
June 11, 2009 at 8:47 am
bmitchell (6/11/2009)
Along the lines of writing better software, my manager sent out this piece by Charles Fishman yesterday. He notes that errors are ultimately the result of the process.
Excellent article. I studied that group in college, almost 20 years ago, and they were the standard of excellence then as well.
They're expensive, and potentially slower, but they do it right. I'm not sure everyone should do it that way, but we could all get better and write more "grown up" software.
Hmmmm, I feel an editorial coming.
June 11, 2009 at 9:02 am
Good topic.
If we tried to regulate the development of the software, a copy of Windows would cost you $3000 (US) and hardware improvements would stagnate. Part of the reason that Windows is so cheap is not because it is everywhere, but because there is very little liability for Microsoft from the user perspective.
Having lawyers, jurors, judges and multi-million dollar punitive settlements would not be consumed by the companies but passed back to the consumers in increased costs. As an example, why does it cost so much to see a doctor? Their malpractice insurance is more per month than many people make. Do the doctors pay that? No, you and I do through increased costs. Should some doctors not be allowed to practice? Absolutely -- they can hurt people. But how do we penalize them without affecting the entire industry?
That same question can be asked of the software industry as well. In our capitalistic society, we would normally vote on that with our wallets. If it is not trustworthy, don't use it. Spread the word and let others know about that "bad" software.
I won't even get into how this used to be the way medical was handled in the US and what changed to make it the way it is.
June 11, 2009 at 10:21 am
cy (6/11/2009)
I sometimes think trying to find out "who" is to blame just adds fuel to the fire. The goal should be to find out "what" is to blame and then fix it. It's been my experience when you point fingers at a specific person, the result is an environment where people are more concerned about covering up mistakes instead of trying to write high quality software.
Well said.
With the one caveat that managers/supervisors do need to know who, in case there's a need for training/correction/discipline. All of those need to be private, but need to be possible.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
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