• Steve Jones - SSC Editor - Thursday, March 14, 2019 8:35 AM

    Matt Miller (4) - Wednesday, March 13, 2019 6:45 PM

    I would agree, that said in some cases - doing it right might take a lot longer to move into place.  You first have to win over the hearts and minds, and not burn out your welcome while you're slaying said hearts and winning said minds.  We've had to spend a few years showing that our technical debt actually has very real costs and liabilities if ignored, and while it's frustrating as hell to eat crow or choke down some of the half baked solutions you KNOW will blow up in no time, in time, people start remembering the feedback.  Just as you yourself have said, when that happens those who do recall our feedback will be much more likely to recall and incorporate our suggestions if they don't come with a large dish of " I told you so" or " we could have avoided that mess".

    Like if or not - we have to get funded if we hope to do anything, right or wrong.   Doing it right first time out comes over time, often after many rounds of having to do it wrong first then fixing what breaks.

    You both (Jeff and you) are missing that part where you have the knowledge to do it right, or better. Often there are inexperienced people that don't have enough knowledge, but learn later. Changing code once it's in place is hard.

    We all have a path in our knowledge, and it's not the same or equal for everyone.

    Heh... no... I'm not missing that point at all.  THAT, good Sir, is actually my whole bloody point! 😀  I'm glad that someone finally recognized what I'm trying to get at!

    First, too many managers, experienced or other wise, don't know what the people they hired don't know and can't do a bloody thing about it because they are the ones that hired people that also don't know what they don't know but absolutely NEED to know in order to be able to do the job correctly (right the first time quickly, accurately, and with scalability/performance in mind).

    Then you have the 9-to5 flavor of coders that have the attitude that know enough to get the job done because they don't actually know what they don't know.  These people aren't necessarily "in-experienced" either.  Some of them also have the piss-poor attitude that if they need to learn to do something or do something better, they 1) think the employer should tell them (but can't because they don't know what they don't know either) or 2) that the employer should pay them to learn how to do the job that their resume said they could do or 3) just flat out have a "I just need to get it off my plate" piece-work DILLIGAF attitude.

    Managers need to learn that they must empower people to quickly do it right the first time (but don't because they're DILLIGAFs that also won't take the time to learn what they don't know) and to take great pride in it.  In the absence of such motivational and helpful leadership, individuals should empower themselves to do so but won't because of the reasons I previously stated.

    If you don't think this is true, then look at most of the questions on this and other forums and realize that most of these people where hired into known positions with known requirements and still don't know even some of the most basic of tasks and have such a DILLIGAF attitude that they won't even try a "Yabingooglehoo" before they ask.

    --Jeff Moden


    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

    Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.


    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    How to Post Performance Problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)