January 9, 2019 at 9:19 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Badly Trained AI
January 10, 2019 at 2:08 am
I worked on a personalisation system that affected the sort order of products returned from a search so as to place the products in order of the customer's propensity to buy.
After the initial excitement had worn off we found that the identified preference became stronger and stronger. Not because the customer's ACTUAL preference was any stronger but because they were only seeing products based on past preferences (unless they started paginating through results which is something very few customers did).
We identified the need to introduce a random element into the mix. Using machine learning techniques to produce an algorithm and dataset identifying likely customer behaviour based on past behaviour was relatively easy. Doing the same thing to identify the optimum ratio of random elements was a problem we didn't crack.
One of the dangers we identified was that initial results were so good as to lull an organisation into a false sense of security. The self fulfilling prophecy element would lead to customer boredom and associating your brand with a very limited range of products even if in reality the brand offers a very wide range. It is easier and cheaper to retain a customer than to acquire/reacquire them.
Another aspect that is missing is the skill in salesmanship. If ML deduces that women tend to put on weight as they age then you have to be damn careful how you market clothes to address a fact that the customer may not be comfortable with.
January 10, 2019 at 6:35 am
I prefer automation to intelligence. Baselines to predictive analytics.
412-977-3526 call/text
January 10, 2019 at 6:56 am
David.Poole - Thursday, January 10, 2019 2:08 AMI worked on a personalisation system that affected the sort order of products returned from a search so as to place the products in order of the customer's propensity to buy.
After the initial excitement had worn off we found that the identified preference became stronger and stronger. Not because the customer's ACTUAL preference was any stronger but because they were only seeing products based on past preferences (unless they started paginating through results which is something very few customers did).
...
When online shopping, I typically just enter a couple of keywords and then immediately sort the returned search results by price from lowest to highest.
:satisfied:
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
January 10, 2019 at 7:55 am
One thing I don't understand about biased AI systems is that how can AI system can be biased if you don't give it the information that could make it biased? For example, if you don't give the algorithm the sex and race of the person how could it come to a biased conclusion about the person?
January 10, 2019 at 8:19 am
Heh... AI... machine learning... When it comes to advertising on the net, someone is hitting the crack pipe pretty hard. I leased a new truck a year ago and immediately got slammed with advertising and emails try to entice me to... buy a new truck. I'm still getting that kind of advertising although at a slightly less volume. It's just stupid and incredible waste of advertising dollars. I know how that advertising is paid for because I used to work for a company that did "Double-click.net" processing for "spotlight pixels" in every graphic that showed up. Huge waste and stupid waste of money the way I've been hit. No wonder why stuff costs so much nowadays.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
January 10, 2019 at 8:26 am
Well not just Amazon's attempt at AI has been biased, Google and Microsoft AIs have been found to be racist at times.
I would love to have a simple AI / ML approach to environment Monitoring, there are paid solutions out there which offer "predictive failures" and things like that but I'd be happy if I could use one SQL Server to highlight all Queries from all servers which degrade in performance or show other fuzziness happening.
There is also at least 1 Insurance Company in China which does customer website chat sessions based on AI to answer questions and inquiries, not sure how satisfied they are, tho.
January 10, 2019 at 8:31 am
I actually came up with a pretty good test for transcription AI. Use the recordings of the public domain works on Librivox.org and compare the transcript to the public domain work.
It solves the volume, comparison and usage issues.
Tests are hard to make vendors take.
412-977-3526 call/text
January 10, 2019 at 8:35 am
Jeff Moden - Thursday, January 10, 2019 8:19 AMHeh... AI... machine learning... When it comes to advertising on the net, someone is hitting the crack pipe pretty hard. I leased a new truck a year ago and immediately got slammed with advertising and emails try to entice me to... buy a new truck. I'm still getting that kind of advertising although at a slightly less volume. It's just stupid and incredible waste of advertising dollars. I know how that advertising is paid for because I used to work for a company that did "Double-click.net" processing for "spotlight pixels" in every graphic that showed up. Huge waste and stupid waste of money the way I've been hit. No wonder why stuff costs so much nowadays.
I work in advertising myself. Got to remember that when you think about all of the people in the world or all of the people in your country, you are marked as someone you MAY have an interest to buy a car compared to the hundreds of millions or billions around the world where they have no idea if they can either drive. So, while you may think it's a waste, it's still a pretty big lead on a potential sale for someone from a statistical standpoint.
But you know, the leads can go cold! I guess that what separates the good advertisers from the bad ones.
January 10, 2019 at 8:49 am
The problem with AI is that it sometimes gives answers based on data rather than the answers desired.
Of course ff the data is indeed bad the results are bad, but another part of the problem is that we live currently in a world dictated by reality, which doesn't always statistically mesh with ideological ideals. AI has no inherent bias, so the next best thing is to blame the data. Or discrimination.
...
-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers --
January 10, 2019 at 8:52 am
What concerns me, with the increase use of AI and ML, is the intentional suppression or exclusion of some data. I've seen this in action. My previous job was working for a non-profit that assisted to help people with drug and alcohol addictions. From the beginning we collected whether or not people were American born or not. I'm not sure why we did collect that data, but we did. Over time the data showed that a very large portion of our clients with substance abuse addictions, were illegal aliens. This became a problem for many politicians, so about 15 years ago our funding source (a government agency) demanded that we remove from the data input forms and remove from our database all references to country of birth. Suddenly, the fact went away or at least was hidden, which in my state, that borders Mexico, was very important to a lot of people.
The topic of illegal aliens is a hot topic, here in the USA. And I'm not bringing up my experience in order to discuss the pros and cons of illegal aliens in the USA. I bring this up only to illustrate that if someone higher up doesn't like what the data shows, they can suppress or exclude the facts in order to satisfy some other agenda. I'm all for AI and ML. I really hope to be able to do more with it. But at least from my experience I know it's possible that the reports produced from the data may not completely reflect reality. And unfortunately no AI or ML can fix that.
Kindest Regards, Rod Connect with me on LinkedIn.
January 10, 2019 at 9:14 am
"Why? Because of bias."
This is exactly my issue with the whole concept of AI. It's 'artificial'.
Not only is data vulnerable to manipulation, but the logic itself is going to have the biases of the software developers and their supporters built into it. We're all subject to these, like it or not.
All you need do is listen to the politicians arguing over their differing VIEWS of the 'same' data, of worse, their VERSIONS of the 'same' data. Or listen to lawyers in court arguing their versions of the same evidence.
My interpretation is that AI can be the worst thing to happen in IT yet. It is turning our judgement over not to machines, but to other unknown people, and that's the rub...
Rick
Disaster Recovery = Backup ( Backup ( Your Backup ) )
January 10, 2019 at 9:27 am
Rod at work - Thursday, January 10, 2019 8:52 AMBut at least from my experience I know it's possible that the reports produced from the data may not completely reflect reality. And unfortunately no AI or ML can fix that.
How true. Even in an innocent example, in one company I worked for, there was a set of five or six pairs (internal/external) of reports which all contained the same logic flaw which, although the data matched from report to report, made the complete set invalid. Unfortunately, this was never fixed due to the 'risk' of making changes. If logic is flawed, AI can go drastically wrong. Fixing bad 'intelligence' is going to be very difficult.
Drawing on my farm background, you might clean up the manure in the barn, but it's easy to forget about the pile outside the door.
Rick
Disaster Recovery = Backup ( Backup ( Your Backup ) )
January 10, 2019 at 9:29 am
Eric M Russell - Thursday, January 10, 2019 6:56 AMDavid.Poole - Thursday, January 10, 2019 2:08 AMI worked on a personalisation system that affected the sort order of products returned from a search so as to place the products in order of the customer's propensity to buy.
After the initial excitement had worn off we found that the identified preference became stronger and stronger. Not because the customer's ACTUAL preference was any stronger but because they were only seeing products based on past preferences (unless they started paginating through results which is something very few customers did).
...When online shopping, I typically just enter a couple of keywords and then immediately sort the returned search results by price from lowest to highest.
:satisfied:
You and me both but you'd be amazed what people put into a search facility. Quite a few entries could be categorised as "sort of thingy" or "whatshamacallit"
January 10, 2019 at 9:31 am
xsevensinzx - Thursday, January 10, 2019 8:35 AMJeff Moden - Thursday, January 10, 2019 8:19 AMHeh... AI... machine learning... When it comes to advertising on the net, someone is hitting the crack pipe pretty hard. I leased a new truck a year ago and immediately got slammed with advertising and emails try to entice me to... buy a new truck. I'm still getting that kind of advertising although at a slightly less volume. It's just stupid and incredible waste of advertising dollars. I know how that advertising is paid for because I used to work for a company that did "Double-click.net" processing for "spotlight pixels" in every graphic that showed up. Huge waste and stupid waste of money the way I've been hit. No wonder why stuff costs so much nowadays.I work in advertising myself. Got to remember that when you think about all of the people in the world or all of the people in your country, you are marked as someone you MAY have an interest to buy a car compared to the hundreds of millions or billions around the world where they have no idea if they can either drive. So, while you may think it's a waste, it's still a pretty big lead on a potential sale for someone from a statistical standpoint.
But you know, the leads can go cold! I guess that what separates the good advertisers from the bad ones.
My point is that the AI/Machine learning cited me as a potential buyer AFTER I "bought" a vehicle without understanding that I just "bought" a vehicle and I'm not going to be in the market for at least another 36 months when the lease runs out. That's means that the failed miserably in identifying the nature of the source of data they're using. It was never a "lead" because it arrived already frozen. It's just stupid.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
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