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DevOps is Really Helpful


DevOps is Really Helpful

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Steve Jones
Steve Jones
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Comments posted to this topic are about the item DevOps is Really Helpful

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Jeff Moden
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I have to disagree when I see something like this. There are no DevOps tools other than the human brain. DevOps is not a set of tools... it's a culture.

Are the tools like the one you spoke of great to have? Absolutely.... but they are not DevOps tools and you don't need to even know the word "DevOps" to use them never mind enjoying the culture of "DevOps".

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced ree-bar and is a Modenism for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
Stop thinking about what you want to do to a row... think, instead, of what you want to do to a column.
If you think its expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur. -- Red Adair

When you put the right degree of spin on it, the number 318 is also a glyph that describes the nature of a DBAs job. Wink

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Steve Jones
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I'll disagree as well. There are tools used to support the DevOps ideas and methodologies. They could be tools used in other areas, but they certainly support and enable a DevOps attitude.

That in no way implies you need any specific tool.

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Jeff Moden
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Steve Jones - SSC Editor - Saturday, June 30, 2018 6:15 PM
I'll disagree as well. There are tools used to support the DevOps ideas and methodologies. They could be tools used in other areas, but they certainly support and enable a DevOps attitude.

That in no way implies you need any specific tool.

My disagreement will have to continue. Such tools have existed for decades before the word "DevOps" was even a glimmer in someone's eye. Heh... some of the tools have existed before the people that coined the word were a glimmer in the Daddy's eye. Wink

DevOps isn't a person, place, thing... it's a culture. The tools we use are cool but they are not DevOps tools.


--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced ree-bar and is a Modenism for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
Stop thinking about what you want to do to a row... think, instead, of what you want to do to a column.
If you think its expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur. -- Red Adair

When you put the right degree of spin on it, the number 318 is also a glyph that describes the nature of a DBAs job. Wink

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to post performance problems
Forum FAQs
Beatrix Kiddo
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I agree that DevOps is a culture. It's first and foremost about how people work together. You can do it without special tools.
funbi
funbi
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You can do it without specialised tools, but it is EASIER with them. There are a lot of tools out there that have been developed relatively recently that facilitate DevOps and have been created specifically for this culture shift in IT.
Jeff Moden
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funbi - Monday, July 2, 2018 4:33 AM
You can do it without specialised tools, but it is EASIER with them. There are a lot of tools out there that have been developed relatively recently that facilitate DevOps and have been created specifically for this culture shift in IT.


There's no question in my mind that the various jobs in IT are easier with tools. But, I disagree about the tools suddenly becoming available because of DevOps. Such tools have always been available and such tools have always been looked at for improvements. I will, however, admit that the culture of DevOps frequently does make people more aware of such tools significantly owing to the fact that more people are talking about such tools even if the erroneously refer to them as "DevOps Tools".

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced ree-bar and is a Modenism for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
Stop thinking about what you want to do to a row... think, instead, of what you want to do to a column.
If you think its expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur. -- Red Adair

When you put the right degree of spin on it, the number 318 is also a glyph that describes the nature of a DBAs job. Wink

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to post performance problems
Forum FAQs
funbi
funbi
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Jeff Moden - Monday, July 2, 2018 6:27 AM
funbi - Monday, July 2, 2018 4:33 AM
You can do it without specialised tools, but it is EASIER with them. There are a lot of tools out there that have been developed relatively recently that facilitate DevOps and have been created specifically for this culture shift in IT.


There's no question in my mind that the various jobs in IT are easier with tools. But, I disagree about the tools suddenly becoming available because of DevOps. Such tools have always been available and such tools have always been looked at for improvements. I will, however, admit that the culture of DevOps frequently does make people more aware of such tools significantly owing to the fact that more people are talking about such tools even if the erroneously refer to them as "DevOps Tools".

We may just be arguing semantics Smile but when the software providers themselves refer to their tools as "DevOps tools" (e.g. Microsoft) then perhaps this is indeed why they were written. But yes it is a culture & mindset as well.

Rod
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Interesting article. I'm going to be following the discussion with interest. From a developer's point of view, I think DevOps is somewhat easier. I understand the tools that can be used, at least in the Microsoft world of things, but I'm sure the same is true in other development stacks. What I don't understand so well is how DevOps is done from operations side. Using Microsoft's tools as an example, if you're working on improving an SSIS package, for example, do you track progress in Visual Studio Team Services (VSTS)? Or what do you do?

Kindest Regards,Rod
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Steve Jones
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I think you're being pendantic and picky, Jeff.

Hammers existed before we worked with wood. Does that mean they're not caprpenter's tools? We had spanners (wrenches) for machines before they were used for cars, does that mean they're not auto mechanic's tools?

Many of these tools existed before, but they're being used in , and marketed for, DevOps. That doesn't mean they make up what DevOps is or ensure you're "doing" DevOps. That certainly is culture and practice, but they are still DevOps tools.

Or they're tools you use to slowly build waterfall designed, poor quality software. The choice is yours.

Follow me on Twitter: @way0utwest
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
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